MOTUnation.com

Hey everyone,

I really do love the topic of orchestration. Probably because it can vary so much from composer to composer. And I know a lot of you out there, like me, happen to spend a lot of time working on orchestrating.

So what composers/musicians/artists are your favorite orchestrators? And what compositions just melt your brain with their orchestrations?

I'll start!

First off, my all time favorite orchestrator (and probably many other people's favorite): Claude Debussy. There is something extremely unique about the way he writes. Once you get past the theory he uses (whole tone scales, amazing attention to form, SO many extended chords, etc) the color that he gets with his orchestration often baffles me. But in a good way Listening to La Mer is always a complicated but insanely enjoyable experience. The last minute of the first movement really gets me inside with the richness off brass with the whimsical setting of the woodwinds and strings in the background. I saw it live a few years back and I was literally sitting in my seat in shock, even though I had heard the piece a million times before. I could go on but I'll save you from my fanboy crush on an amazing man.

I am also a huge fan of a lot the Russian composers. More specifically Shostakovich, Rimsky-Korsakov, and Tchaikovsky. Tchaikovsky's ballets have a very unique lushness to their orchestration. And then he really brings out the guns for his Symphonies (especially 4). Other pieces that are of my favorites are Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade and Shostakovich symphonies.

Igor Stravinsky and the other hand, gets his own category. While many people gush over Rite of Spring, I gush over Petrouchka. If you look at the score, I always find it interesting which instruments he gives the melody to and which he has sustaining the harmony (especially the Russian Dance in the first part where he has half the orchestra moving while the the other half sustains the chords) LOVE IT!!!!

Other composers who are favorite orchestrators of mine include:
- James Macmillan (Modern Scottish composer for those you don't recognize the name)
- Ralph Vaughan Williams
- Richard Wagner
- Frank Bridge
- John Adams
- David Gillingham (modern wind symphony composer)
- Gustav Mahler (for his sheer power)
- The Beatles

And some of my other favorite orchestrations:
- James Macmillan - The Confession of Isobel Gowdie
- Vaughan Williams - Symphony No. 5
- Anything by Debussy
- Jennifer Higdon's Blue Cathedral
- Copland's 3rd Symphony (WAY cooler than fanfare for the common man, because its fanfare for the common man times 1000!!!!)
- Wagner's Tristan & Isolde

So enough from me. List your favorites and if you want an explanation on why you like them! Have fun!

cheers,
ea

Nelson Riddle.

Ravel
Rimsky-Korsakov

.

Right now I'm listening (for the 10th time this week) to Richard Strauss' Eine Alpensinfonie. WOW! What a glorious masterpiece.
I'm waiting for the score delivery. It's an amazing piece of orchestration, albeit for non-standard orchestral forces.
My girlfriend already sings the main theme.

Beethoven, Wagner and Ottorino Respighi are probably my favorites.
Ravel is great.
Shostakovich
Rimsky-Korsakov.
Bartok.
Benjamin Britten.

Some orchestrators were just born to be great.

Ravel-- Daphnis et Chloe, La Valse
Strauss-- among SO many-- Salome, Elektra, Death and Transfiguration

I must also agree with Respighi and Mahler as master orchestrators.

When threads like these crop up, I don't know if I've ever effectively asserted Paul Hindemith as an orchestrator. For those who don't know Mathis der Maler, it is truly an orchestral masterpiece.

Generally, I go back to those I call the no-nonsense classicists and post classicist orchestrators--- Beethoven, Mendelssohn, Brahms. If you want understand how an orchestra works in perfect dynamic balance with doublings, unisons, and various combos--- these three guys tell it like it is.

And Elektroacoustika cites Frank Bridge. Most people have never even heard of Frank Bridge!! Good going, EA.

Liszt-- Les Preludes-- even if you don't think you like Liszt (based on his pianistic bravura), there is no denying this masterful orchestration.

The Russians. Serious masters all around. Tchaikowsky, Prokifiev, Stravinsky, Skryabin--- and I've got to include Rachmaninov in this group as well. Rach's Symphonies and Concertos are brilliant for their use of orchestration. Rimsky-- but of course!

Anyone into Alexander Gretchaninoff or Alexander Borodin?

I must also give a huge nod to the Italians-- Verdi and Puccini. Verdi's score to Othello is a work of art. Also, Puccini's score to his opera Turandot needs two lifetimes to fully appreciate. The first two pages of score alone.... for crying out loud.

So many more-- way too little time online...

A good book that gave me many insights into orchestration, especially as it relates to a given composer's compositional approach, is "Style and Orchestration" by Gardner Read. It is out of print I believe but you could probably find a copy on ebay or Amazon or any good music library. Check it out.

Everybody's selections so far have been excellent choices.

Frodo wrote:Some orchestrators were just born to be great.

so true Frodo! I also really enjoy Strauss and Daphnis Et Chloe is one of my favorite ballets ever.

Frodo wrote:And Elektroacoustika cites Frank Bridge. Most people have never even heard of Frank Bridge!! Good going, EA.

Hardly anyone ever knows who Frank Bridge is!!! Which is really too bad because he is one of the great English Romantic composers. Up there with Elgar, Britten and Vaughan Williams. His piece The Sea is an all time favorite of mine.

Frodo wrote:Liszt-- Les Preludes-- even if you don't think you like Liszt (based on his pianistic bravura), there is no denying this masterful orchestration.

I had the great honor of playing this piece when I was in high school for a competition. I was blessed to be surrounded by some great musicians and a great conductor that really brought what I believe to be Liszt's orchestral masterpiece to life. Never had I played my trumpet so loud in my life.

Frodo wrote:and I've got to include Rachmaninov in this group as well. Rach's Symphonies and Concertos are brilliant for their use of orchestration.

Rachmaninov is a master at so much. In addition to his piano and orchestral works, his choral works like his Vespers and Liturgy of St John Chrysostum are some of the best written choral works I've ever heard.

Frodo wrote:Anyone into Alexander Borodin?

PRINCE IGOR!!!! thats all i have to say

As for the Italians, Puccini and his Tosca often find themselves into my player

GREAT choices Frodo. I tip my hat to you.

djc wrote:A good book that gave me many insights into orchestration, especially as it relates to a given composer's compositional approach, is "Style and Orchestration" by Gardner Read. It is out of print I believe but you could probably find a copy on ebay or Amazon or any good music library. Check it out.

I've skimmed (breifly) through this book. I often reference Read's Music Notation book which is a great book to have just in case you run into an issue on how to notate a certain technique or are doing something out of the box.

As for orchestration books, I was brought up with the Adler text for orchestration. Though I find it a good reference, I don't believe orchestration can be taught from a book. I think its really finding the sounds you like with other composers and then studying their scores. I can't tell you how much of my orchestrational ideas come from what Debussy, Mahler, Ravel, Bridge, Vaughan Williams, and so many other composers introduced me to.

Thanks for your responses my friends!
-ea

Sibelius - I spent some time on the coasts of Norway and Sweden (I know, he was a Finnish composer) and his music IS the soundtrack for that part of the world.

Alfred Schnittke - I love his symphonies and concertos (especially his first cello concerto). The way he uses dynamics kills me.

I also love Beethoven, Rachmaninov, Berg, Zemlinsky (underrated I feel), & Korngold.

I love this thread . . . MORE PEOPLE, MORE PEOPLE!

John Harbison.
One of the best and most underrated composers working today.
And a masterful orchestrator....

wrathy wrote:John Harbison.
One of the best and most underrated composers working today.
And a masterful orchestrator....

Lee Hoiby
Joseph Schwantner
John Adams
Samuel Barber

For the last composer in that list, I do not refer to the proverbial "Adagio". It was the Piano Concerto, his operas Vanessa and Anthony and Cleopatra which have slain me time and time again....

Frodo wrote: For the last composer in that list, I do not refer to the proverbial "Adagio". It was the Piano Concerto, his operas Vanessa and Anthony and Cleopatra which have slain me time and time again....

And what about Medea's Meditation & Dance of Vengeance? Talk about being ahead of your time. Pianist's beware!

Oh, yeah-- Medea-- and I don't mean Tyler Perry's character!!

Then there are the Symphonies, "School for Scandal", the concertos for violin and cello, the Capricorn Concerto, and the various sonatas. The man was a genius in the midst of more advant garde criticism. Guess whose music has proven to be more enduring over the past 50 years?

Not because it wasn't advant garde, but because it was just so well done regardless of genre.

Frodo wrote: Guess whose music has proven to be more enduring over the past 50 years?

Not because it wasn't advant garde, but because it was just so well done regardless of genre.

Um... what, that was on final Jeopardy just last week...

(Z, we got a bug...)

Too many movies... sorry.

BTW, anyone heard that D Elfman is writing a score for Cirque du Soleil?! Sounds like a marriage made in Hollywood...

Frodo wrote:Oh, yeah-- Medea-- and I don't mean Tyler Perry's character!!

Then there are the Symphonies, "School for Scandal", the concertos for violin and cello, the Capricorn Concerto, and the various sonatas. The man was a genius in the midst of more advant garde criticism. Guess whose music has proven to be more enduring over the past 50 years?

Not because it wasn't advant garde, but because it was just so well done regardless of genre.

Don't leave out Knoxville Summer of 1915. By far an excellence in chamber orchestration and solo voice. And also his Essays for orchestra!!!! Too much great music!!!

Elektroakoustika wrote:

Frodo wrote:Oh, yeah-- Medea-- and I don't mean Tyler Perry's character!!

Then there are the Symphonies, "School for Scandal", the concertos for violin and cello, the Capricorn Concerto, and the various sonatas. The man was a genius in the midst of more advant garde criticism. Guess whose music has proven to be more enduring over the past 50 years?

Not because it wasn't advant garde, but because it was just so well done regardless of genre.

Don't leave out Knoxville Summer of 1915. By far an excellence in chamber orchestration and solo voice. And also his Essays for orchestra!!!! Too much great music!!!

Oh, we can just list Barber's complete works!!

Yeah, Knoxville is brilliant. That was the first piece I used for a virtual mockup-- with GM sounds almost 20 years ago.

On the rough wet grass of the backyard
My father and mother have spread quilts
We all lie there, my father, my mother, my uncle, my aunt
And I, too, am lying there

They are not talking much, and the talk is quiet
Of nothing in particular, of nothing at all.

How Barber managed to set Agee's prose is itself boggles my mind.