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I know this is a tough one. I'm currently scoring a full length movie by an unknown director who will then submit it to a couple of film festivals. I've had limited experience, but am not brand new to this ....... need the work and not w=sure what a fair fee would be for my services?

Thanks ....... hate these questions.

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How much music do you have to write?
How much time do you have to write it?
What kind of music must you write?
Is this the only project you have for now, or would you need to sacrifice other projects to do this?
Will it be an ALL-MIDI score, or will you need to hire musicians?

Also, this thread should be in the Music Business section... unless you talk about the compositional aspects of you future-score...

FMiguelez wrote:this thread should be in the Music Business section...

I don't agree. It's fine right where it is (was) IMO. But the answer is: you charge what you're worth.

Well, I think this topic was covered once before. And it was in the Music Business section, which is actually probably more appropriate in my mind. I could see it being either place, but anything that has to do with financial aspects of music probably qualifies as "business."

What's the film's budget? Are they expecting all plastic score or real instruments? Make sure you're not going to be out of pocket.

I find that as a composer, I have to charge everything because I never have enough cash!

bkshepard wrote:I find that as a composer, I have to charge everything because I never have enough cash!

No, that's the result of being a teacher...

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:

bkshepard wrote:I find that as a composer, I have to charge everything because I never have enough cash!

No, that's the result of being a teacher...

Are you kidding? As a teacher, I can't even get a charge card!

I was at a film scoring convention a few years back when someone from the audience asked Leonard Bernstein, the guest speaker, the same question. His answer was "Whatever you can get."

ASCAP and BMI both offer articles on the subject and one should read them. In the US, you get paid for the initial project and can't see another dime until it is sold to foreign markets or TV including cable. When that happens, you need to be a member of a performing rights organization and have your cue sheets in order to see any additional monies.

For a low budget indie film, you should be able to retain your publishing - get your Copyright certificates together. With a large budget, the film company will own it - Copyright certificates aren't your concern. Even if a film company owns your publishing, you still see your ASCAP or BMI royalties as the composer - if you belong and have your cue sheets together (do you see where I am going with this?).

If you are not a member of a PRO, now is the time to join.

As far as film, get as much as you can. For television, $500 up front to an unknown isn't unusual since you will make royalties once it shows on the tube (again, as long as you belong to a PRO and have your cue sheets filed).

This mikehalloran knows his stuff! Another great post. "Charge what you think you're worth" is a good rule of thumb. Unfortunately, what you think your worth and what the producers are willing to pay are usually two different things. NEVER underestimate the value of airplay on TV, btw. Even a lowly 30 second cable spot can pay many times the composing fee if you retain all rights. Something that is of greater length and has repeat airings can also pay quite well (again, as long as you retain your writer and hopefully publisher rights.)

Do stage shows fall into a different category than TV or film/movies?

In other words, is the basic principle one of royalties for repeat performances, where a film or TV show, even though "broadcast" to many screens initially, is considered to be a single performance initially, until re-release in foreign markets and/or DVD's?

mhschmieder wrote:Do stage shows fall into a different category than TV or film/movies?

In other words, is the basic principle one of royalties for repeat performances, where a film or TV show, even though "broadcast" to many screens initially, is considered to be a single performance initially, until re-release in foreign markets and/or DVD's?

Three different questions, each with different answers. There is no "in other words" that covers stage, film and TV as each are handled differently.

Dramatic (stage) performances are always licensed directly by the publisher or their agents. Any performance royalty is part of the rental - usually per day.

Movie composers and union musicians are paid once for the US theatrical release of the film and do not see more money until it is sold into other markets (foreign etc). Some have negotiated additional monies for theatrical re-release but this is not typical. Until recently, they didn't even get paid for VHS/DVD release into the home market - this is changing.

TV broadcast and cable royalties are paid by the PROs (BMI, SESAC, ASCAP) assuming the producer has submitted the proper cue sheets. Your PRO can tell you how this works and has this on their web sites.

Obviously I'm late to this topic and I am curious to see how it went. I will add my thoughts, albeit a bit late. My first word of advice is, if you are fairly new to the industry and haven't gotten much work, a indie film being entered into a film festival is a perfect vehicle for both experience and possibility. You get to work with a director that will most likely be much more willing to work with you and listen to your ideas not to mention be understanding of any mistakes you might make. Many of us got into the biz by working on student films or very young directors doing short films or jingles, this isn't much different.

In a situation like this I'd ask for maybe $1000 to cover some of your time and expenses but make sure you get some kind of legal document that entitles you to a small percentage of the buyout deal if its picked up by a distributer. When you get hired for a film with an existing budget normally its a flat rate and you don't get anything on the back end. This is an opportunity to not only learn on the job but also have the possibility of making a nice chunk of change if the film gets picked up. Personally I'd also politely ask for "music by" placement in the openings credits.

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