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does anyone else find editing MIDI in dp a "chore"?

i'm coming from a metro sequencer backround (when i was doing more MIDI stuff 5 years ago) and have been using dp (mostly audio) for about a year now and only have briefly gotten into recording MIDI a couple of times in dp.(4.6.1)

i hate the tiny icons used in the event list window (that i can barely see) and the lack of cool MIDI tools that metro has like rhythm explorer, the air brush and their new arpeggiator.

i find dp's tools kind of arduous and un-intuitive.

i'm going to upgrade to 5.x soon (can't go to 6 because of computer restraints).

was the editing and tools improved at all in versions 5.x and up?

are there 3rd party MIDI warping plugins available for dp?

it would be nice if the event list would highlight/scroll the notes as the track played.

does logic have better MIDI stuff going on than dp?

just looking for opinions here.
i'm quite pleased with all the audio editing capabilities.

DP started out as a MIDI only sequencer years ago. I has evolved into what many would agree as having the best MIDI features of all DAWs. Dig in and I'm sure you'll start loving it's MIDI features.

rumble wrote:does logic have better MIDI stuff going on than dp?

Logic and DP both started like many, many years ago as MIDI only sequencers. Either of them are quite capable on that particular topic. It comes down to personal preferences.

well in dp's defense i found this:

http://www.klemm-music.de/motu/performer/plugz.htm

and this:
http://www.midiplugins.com/
(but mostly for windows machines...)

and it sounds promising, but i've seen things in old apps like dr. t's sequencer (commodore 64) and amiga computers (bars & pipes & dr. t's) that had all kinds of cool MIDI processes.

bars & pipes let you rewire MIDI data in all kinds of ways. i think you could have one arpeggiator/sequence trigger another, etc., and i used to use a process in dr. t's called "rechannelize" which you could take a sequence on one MIDI channel and rechannelize each consecutive MIDI note to different (user selectable) MIDI channels. i think you can kind of do something simular in dp, but not as elegantly as i've seen it implemented in some of these older apps.

i would love to see more creative and experimental MIDI plug ins, like things that would give the effect of strumming a guitar or something that would do user programmable drum rools or flams and be able to save these as a preset without having to set them and do a lot of tweaking in dp
for each effect you're looking for.

for instance, metro's new sequencer sounds incredible:

multiple arpeggiation patterns; multiple methods; up, down, updownedges, chords and diatonic chords; octaves control; sync control; swing control; steps control; pattern UI area with 16 X 3 steps, each with quick independent control over transpose, velocity and duration via popup; latching keeps the arp playing; retriggering; initialize pattern; randomize pattern; shuffle pattern; load and save presets; copy and paste; transpose up and down; remote control of arp parameters; spread slider for guitar like strumming; left and right arrow keys can be used to rotate the current pattern; works with all soft synth plugs and external MIDI;

then you have a spray paint tool that lets you "paint" MIDI notes (constrained to any key), as well as randomizing rhythm generators where you can copy part of a sequence and randomly generate 8 variations of it based on different criteria you select.

there's a pic of it at the bottom of this page:
http://www.sagantech.biz/

then there are standalone MIDI warping apps like M which are also really cool...

but i'd love to see some of this stuff implemented in dp.
[/img]

bring on the plugins is what i say...

The article on DP having the first MIDI effects plug-ins is wrong. Cubase has had MIDI effects plug-ins for years, I've used them extensively.

-LFO

well, like i said they were being used on an amiga in bars & pipes...

here's a curious (free) MIDI plug in i just found:

http://www.mucoder.net/hypercyclic/

.

Rumble:

MIDI is stupid powerful on DP. Make sure you've read the manual, and studied the tips-sheet. You'll find a wealth of knowledge there.

Also, how familiar are you with the key commands? (Shift-L)

And just wait till MOTU implements one of the over-due features that Frodo referred to in the MOUT-Hobbit thread

ok. i'll dig in deeper, but i'd still like to see more MIDI plugins.

http://www.koen.smartelectronix.com/KTDrumTrigger/

My only comparison is Sonar, as that is what my songwriting partner uses. I would say it is far easier for MIDI editing, when it comes to stuff like CC's.

I finally decided to keep going without giving up last weekend, after many other failed attempts at creating MIDI CC curves, and now feel confident that I know how to do it correctly (and all the ways of paramterising it beforehand), but unless I'm missing something, you can't just draw an actual curve in DP and have it do a "fill". Neither the coarse-editing nor fine-editing options give quite the combination of tools to achieve that the way I would like. Sonar, contrarily, would probably work ideally with a Wacam tablet interface, and seems far more graphical in its MIDI editing.

mhschmieder wrote:... unless I'm missing something, you can't just draw an actual curve in DP and have it do a "fill".

Have you not seen the intensive tutorial that Shooshie put together on controller data editing? I think it's in one of the tips pages.

rumble wrote:ok. i'll dig in deeper, but i'd still like to see more MIDI plugins.

http://www.koen.smartelectronix.com/KTDrumTrigger/

Shame about this as it looks quite the bomb but alas it's only VST and PPC compatible.

IAMLFO wrote:The article on DP having the first MIDI effects plug-ins is wrong. Cubase has had MIDI effects plug-ins for years, I've used them extensively.

-LFO

BTW, that article was for Performer 6, not Digital Performer 6. Must have been written at least 8 or 9 years ago.

I've made my living for decades as a music director, arranging, composing, recording and performing in DP. For years my daily work consisted of 12 hours a day of MIDI. I feel comfortable in saying that I can create pretty much any sort of musical line in MIDI in a very short time. This involves hundreds of tricks that I've learned over the years -- mostly out of necessity.

So, when I go to Logic (which I also own), PT, Cubase, or other MIDI apps, I immediately start looking for certain capabilities that make it easy to use. I'm surprised that most do not have these, or else they have some of them scattered through many windows which makes it inconvenient.

DP is smart. It's also deep. Even long-time users often do not realize what is there. For example, in this thread, MSchmieder (a very able musician and long-time DP user) wrote " unless I'm missing something, you can't just draw an actual curve in DP and have it do a 'fill'." I guess he missed that. Of course you can. And you can do amazing curves. See my tutorial here. (you may have to scroll. The article is titled "Creating and Editing Control and Automation Points ") There's no end to what you can do.

MIDI-wise, DP is simply amazing. There is a learning curve, but hey... that's life.

Shooshie

MIDI in DP..... the best!!!
20 years using (Performer/now DP).
All my productions, big concerts, everything I do in my work....DP is the DAW.
Thanks MOTU.