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Hello, everyone.

I wonder if there would be a way, even if it's complex, that I can sort of route a bunch of MIDI channels somewhere to be able to control that "bus's" CC#7.

I have like a zillion MIDI tracks. Each instrument has like 10-15 tracks to account for different articulations. I've tried to obtain a mix where each instrument's lines sound as realistic as possible. It sounds fine when soloed, but when in the context of the rest of the stuff I need to adjust the volumes. The thing is that each time I need to raise someone's volume, I need to find ALL the tracks of the instrument and figure which one or which ones are the ones that I need. The line can be scattered throughout the channels, so just imagine how long this takes, for EVERY adjustment.

So, once I get a preliminar level for an instrument, I'd like to route all the MIDI tracks related to the Oboes, for instance, and just deal with one single fader, as if it was audio.

Can I use the MIDI Time Piece driver for this? OR DP's consoles?

Thank you so much. This would save me HOURS of time.

What if you just create a track group and group all the MIDI track faders together?

FMiguelez wrote:.

Hello, everyone.

I wonder if there would be a way, even if it's complex, that I can sort of route a bunch of MIDI channels somewhere to be able to control that "bus's" CC#7.

I have like a zillion MIDI tracks. Each instrument has like 10-15 tracks to account for different articulations. I've tried to obtain a mix where each instrument's lines sound as realistic as possible. It sounds fine when soloed, but when in the context of the rest of the stuff I need to adjust the volumes. The thing is that each time I need to raise someone's volume, I need to find ALL the tracks of the instrument and figure which one or which ones are the ones that I need. The line can be scattered throughout the channels, so just imagine how long this takes, for EVERY adjustment.

So, once I get a preliminar level for an instrument, I'd like to route all the MIDI tracks related to the Oboes, for instance, and just deal with one single fader, as if it was audio.

Can I use the MIDI Time Piece driver for this? OR DP's consoles?

Thank you so much. This would save me HOURS of time.

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Of course. The thing (that I failed to mention) is that I'd like to also just deal with ONE fader, so the mixer doesn't need to be like 4 screens long.

But actually now that you did mention that, I'll have to make time to test if grouping the tracks, and just showing in the mixer any of the groups "representative tracks", is reliable enough that I can just have them grouped and assume everything is getting the right control points at the right moment.

Another complication is that if I group the tracks, whatever automation was there before I grouped them would be gone if I overwrite something, not to mention MIDI cross fades between them etc.


Hmmmm...

FMiguelez wrote: Another complication is that if I group the tracks, whatever automation was there before I grouped them would be gone if I overwrite something, not to mention MIDI cross fades between them etc.

Why not use CC#11 for the individual tracks 'automation' then use grouped CC#7 for the overall volume. A group is probably ideal actually, because not doubt you'll need to balance the patches against each other anyway, and you'll want the volumes to change relatively to that.

Either that or bus the audio for a particular instrument from your VI to a separate Aux track and use the volume on that track.

Wow, great idea. I hadn't thought about that. Also, I guess you could render the individual tracks, then group the audio tracks and adjust.

It's amazing how tricky MIDI data can seem to be sometimes. I love using BFD drums, but Lord, editing CC info and 8 different nots for the hihats can get hectic... Recently when possible, I've been rendering stuff and then editing the audio : )

Mr_Clifford wrote:

FMiguelez wrote: Either that or bus the audio for a particular instrument from your VI to a separate Aux track and use the volume on that track.

also, if you've got them all as a group, you don't need to have all the tracks showing in the mixer window - you can just have one of the tracks of the group in the window and move that fader. all the others will move (though you won't see them.)

If I want to control several track with only one, I use the IAC driver with MIDI Multi Record. You set up all your controlled track's input with IAC Channel 1 then You assign the output of your master MIDI track to that same IAC Bus

Mr_Clifford wrote:

FMiguelez wrote: Another complication is that if I group the tracks, whatever automation was there before I grouped them would be gone if I overwrite something, not to mention MIDI cross fades between them etc.

Why not use CC#11 for the individual tracks 'automation' then use grouped CC#7 for the overall volume. A group is probably ideal actually, because not doubt you'll need to balance the patches against each other anyway, and you'll want the volumes to change relatively to that.

Either that or bus the audio for a particular instrument from your VI to a separate Aux track and use the volume on that track.

Good one. I'll try it.

Mr_Clifford wrote:Either that or bus the audio for a particular instrument from your VI to a separate Aux track and use the volume on that track.

I wish I could. I'm using my PCs with GigaStudio.

Recording Arts wrote:Wow, great idea. I hadn't thought about that. Also, I guess you could render the individual tracks, then group the audio tracks and adjust

Yes. I can do that, and in fact, I will. It's just that what you mention is the NEXT step. First I want to make sure I have a decent MIDI mix... at least a good basic one, so when I print the tracks I deal more with phrases than individual notes.

Doodles wrote:also, if you've got them all as a group, you don't need to have all the tracks showing in the mixer window - you can just have one of the tracks of the group in the window and move that fader. all the others will move (though you won't see them

I just tried it to group the tracks and pretend there's just one channel for each instrument.

DAMN!!! It's kind of like a total automation mess!!
DP 4.61 is still installed on my main computer, and it's what I'm using for this particular project. Sometimes, when I insert automation with the tracks grouped, it will do what I want, but just as often it won't do it correctly. It may not include the control point in one or more tracks, or draw weird shapes out of nowhere, etc.
Actually this would be the answer if I was 100% certain it won't mess things up.

Man, I just wish there was a way to treat this kind of like audio for much more ease...

Or maybe I just need the new VSL... Pronto!

Dwetmaster wrote:If I want to control several track with only one, I use the IAC driver with MIDI Multi Record. You set up all your controlled track's input with IAC Channel 1 then You assign the output of your master MIDI track to that same IAC Bus

Aha!!!

THAT's what I was talking about. I've heard some people manipulating the IAC driver for some other purposes, so I wondered if this was possible for this case.

Would you please explain with a little more detail as to how to achieve this?

I've never done this, so I just have a very vague idea.


Thanks!

Or maybe I just need the new VSL... Pronto!

it's lipsmackingly wonderful.

FM,
what you're looking for, I think, is a true MIDI Master Fader....one that would act on MIDI tracks just like the Master Fader works on audio. Sadly, I don't think we've ever had one in DP's mixing board offerings. I recall asking aobut this about 3-4 years ago. I needed to fade about 45 tracks at the end of a piece. My memory is that the closest you can get is to build a Custom Console, where you *can* create a true MIDI Master Fader but short of that - and the great workarounds mentioned above - I think you're stuck.

FMiguelez wrote:Would you please explain with a little more detail as to how to achieve this?

Sure, I do this all the time when I want to control all my strings or my brass expression at the same time.

Enable IAC Driver in A/M Setup
Put DP in MIDI Multi-Record Mode
Make a master MIDI track and assign its output to a IAC channel
Assign all of your controlled MIDI track's input to the IAC channel.
Record-Enable the Controlled MIDI Tracks

Now EVERYTHING you do with the Master MIDI channel is mirrored on all the other controlled tracks.

Note that if you have notes or other MIDI information playing in individual controlled tracks it will still play be played back.

You can try grouping the individual instruments (ie all the oboes to a single grp) then set the automation to "trim latch"on any of the oboe tracks. When you ride the volume on one of the faders with-in that group, all with-in that group will follow, retaining the MIDI volumes on each of the individual oboe tracks.

You'll at lest get your instruments to a good basic mix. If you record in the automation in the "trim latch" mode...... MIDI might get flakey.

When mixing you will only need to see one track of each group in the mix window, keeping the mix window manageable.

doodles wrote:

FMiguelez wrote:Or maybe I just need the new VSL... Pronto!

it's lipsmackingly wonderful.

Yeah, rub it in

Of course, then I'd also need 2 more computers. But hey, apparently I won't need another MIDI Time Piece, nor another 2408.

I'm not sure how, but I must buy this monster THIS year.

Doodles wrote:FM,
what you're looking for, I think, is a true MIDI Master Fader....one that would act on MIDI tracks just like the Master Fader works on audio. Sadly, I don't think we've ever had one in DP's mixing board offerings. I recall asking aobut this about 3-4 years ago. I needed to fade about 45 tracks at the end of a piece. My memory is that the closest you can get is to build a Custom Console, where you *can* create a true MIDI Master Fader but short of that - and the great workarounds mentioned above - I think you're stuck.

Exactly. You see, MOTU? That makes two of us... at least. I mean, I can not see how this would not benefit users. It won't affect the ones who don't find this important, and save the others hours of work.

How did setting up those consoles work for you?
Could you make it the way you wanted, and responded the way you wanted?

I should probably read the chapter in the manual. It must be the only one I've never read at all...

DwetMaster wrote:Sure, I do this all the time when I want to control all my strings or my brass expression at the same time.

Enable IAC Driver in A/M Setup
Put DP in MIDI Multi-Record Mode
Make a master MIDI track and assign its output to a IAC channel
Assign all of your controlled MIDI track's input to the IAC channel.
Record-Enable the Controlled MIDI Tracks

Now EVERYTHING you do with the Master MIDI channel is mirrored on all the other controlled tracks.

Note that if you have notes or other MIDI information playing in individual controlled tracks it will still play be played back

Wonderful.

How reliable would you say this is? Is it something we can really depend on?

I will try this ASAP, since it really looks like it could be the answer to my issues.

Thanks so much for this, my friend

DogBoy wrote:You can try grouping the individual instruments (ie all the oboes to a single grp) then set the automation to "trim latch"on any of the oboe tracks. When you ride the volume on one of the faders with-in that group, all with-in that group will follow, retaining the MIDI volumes on each of the individual oboe tracks.

I used to do it like this, but found it too unreliable. Some tracks would work, some others wouldn't. Weird automation shapes resulted in a few tracks as well.
So, in THEORY, you're right. THAT should do the trick, but the more automation there is, the bigger the chances things will get weird.

DwetMaster's suggestion sounds like it's THE answer. We'll see


Oh, and I made a note to investigate consoles, for this purpose or maybe I will discover another probable good usage for them... if I figure them out...

FMiguelez wrote:How reliable would you say this is? Is it something we can really depend on?

It's been as reliable as Rewire. Sometimes Core-MIDI acts funny on my system where I see weird empty MIDI destinations appear but It never had nothing to do with this IAC thing AFAIK.