TI chipsets and Motu- whats the deal?
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:30 am
Ive been using Cubase SX (most updated 3.0 version) with a motu 828 firewire troublefree since 2004.
My hard drive recently failed , and upon replacing it, the person fixing my machine insisted I get all the windows upgrades, against my instinct. I still had service pack 1 and had never gotten any upgrades in a few years, keeping a stable system stable by not fixing what aint broke.
Of course having the latest updates and drivers is generally a good thing, so thats what I ended up with. Nonetheless it was with trepidation that I launched cubase and pointed it to the motu device with which had been so familiar in the past. I got lockups, sputtering playback and other delights. But the main problem was Cubase stopped being able to "see" the MOTu device, and indeed the computer didnt see it either, so the problem is at that level.
After several hours of WTF troubleshooting (reinstalling drivers, triple checking all versions and dates of drivers) I was forced to call Motu. Motu blames my VIA chipset onboard firewire, saying literally "Motu doesnt support VIA chipset cards at all". So, this same firewire card and same audio firewire device are now all of a sudden incompatible after years of reliable use. Windows upgrades, I was told, can "trigger" the problem. I asked if this info was on their site, and I was told it was under tech notes. I did find the technote dated MARCH 2008. Which states:
MOTU recommends using strictly FireWire PCI/PCMCIA cards based on the Texas Instrument chipset.
There's an incompatibility between the NEC chip found in some FireWire cards and the MOTU FireWire line of interface.
If the FireWire installer warns you that you're running a FireWire card with the NEC chip, you should replace said card with a card that uses the TI (Texas Instruments) or LSI (formlery Lucent/Agere) chip.
MOTU recommends using strictly FireWire PCI/PCMCIA cards based on the Texas Instrument chipset.
/Agere) chip.
So Im thinking, ok, this is stupid but for expediency's sake I will just buy a $25 TI chipset firewire card. No big deal, right? Wrong. I have been trying to get hold of one for almost a week. THe problem? MAnufacturers specs stating that they use the TI chipset and when you get the thing in the mail you see a VIA chipset plain as day. This has happened now three times to my computer parts guy, and once to me personally when I tried to order one online. I made the guy open the box before he sent it and sure enough it was a VIA chipset despite the manufacturers specs clearly stating TI chipset.
Other places Ive tried to order it online say they are out of stock.
Of course the local stores here in DC dont appear to have it either.
So one problem, namely mine, has unearthed a much greater problem. How many people are now going to be buying TI chipset cards only to find they arent actually TI chipsets? Why is this all of a sudden some rare commodity? And why would MOTU release a tech note THIS month stating you have to have something that you cant actually reliably procure?
BTW, I did install the latest drivers from MOTU on another machine which has an onboard TI chipset firewire port and there appeared to be immediate recognition of the MOTU device. So it appears there is something to this TI spec in relation to their drivers....
Now, theoretically, I think I could roll back both the firewire driver and the MOTU driver to the corresponding older versions, but locating them could be a challenge. When my hard drive died the data was retrieved but Im not sure system level stuff like drivers would be on there.
I finally found rainrecording.com and ordered what they guaranteed to be a TI chipset PCI card (they will take it back if its not a TI chipset). THe sales guy there confirmed the incredible difficulty in locating TI chipset PCI cards, and moreoever, locating them from a manufacturer that wont willy nilly change the chip without notice. It took them months of searching before they found a reliable manufacturer and found the right firewire specs that audio people could reliably use with Motu and whatever else
Why is the tech note dated this month, when this must have been an issue before? Why cant MOTU just write a new driver that works with more chipsets? How can motu say "you better check with the manufacturer" when the manufacturer will most of the time NOT guarantee their specs and NOT take back a card once opened? This is going to get ugly real fast.
Finally, there is the tech support guy who wasnt really interested in hearing about how I did use the MOTU device with a VIA chipset for years. Whats changed? In my case, drivers, I would suppose. Both windows and Motu. But no alternatives whatsoever were offered except a directive to purchase something that until I hold it in my hands tomorrow I have to say is just about unpurchasable.
If THIS puppy doesnt work then I guess I will have to buy a USB audio device. Ive been told that MOTU writes good reliable drivers. My experience indicates otherwise, unless someone can illuminate me.
My hard drive recently failed , and upon replacing it, the person fixing my machine insisted I get all the windows upgrades, against my instinct. I still had service pack 1 and had never gotten any upgrades in a few years, keeping a stable system stable by not fixing what aint broke.
Of course having the latest updates and drivers is generally a good thing, so thats what I ended up with. Nonetheless it was with trepidation that I launched cubase and pointed it to the motu device with which had been so familiar in the past. I got lockups, sputtering playback and other delights. But the main problem was Cubase stopped being able to "see" the MOTu device, and indeed the computer didnt see it either, so the problem is at that level.
After several hours of WTF troubleshooting (reinstalling drivers, triple checking all versions and dates of drivers) I was forced to call Motu. Motu blames my VIA chipset onboard firewire, saying literally "Motu doesnt support VIA chipset cards at all". So, this same firewire card and same audio firewire device are now all of a sudden incompatible after years of reliable use. Windows upgrades, I was told, can "trigger" the problem. I asked if this info was on their site, and I was told it was under tech notes. I did find the technote dated MARCH 2008. Which states:
MOTU recommends using strictly FireWire PCI/PCMCIA cards based on the Texas Instrument chipset.
There's an incompatibility between the NEC chip found in some FireWire cards and the MOTU FireWire line of interface.
If the FireWire installer warns you that you're running a FireWire card with the NEC chip, you should replace said card with a card that uses the TI (Texas Instruments) or LSI (formlery Lucent/Agere) chip.
MOTU recommends using strictly FireWire PCI/PCMCIA cards based on the Texas Instrument chipset.
/Agere) chip.
So Im thinking, ok, this is stupid but for expediency's sake I will just buy a $25 TI chipset firewire card. No big deal, right? Wrong. I have been trying to get hold of one for almost a week. THe problem? MAnufacturers specs stating that they use the TI chipset and when you get the thing in the mail you see a VIA chipset plain as day. This has happened now three times to my computer parts guy, and once to me personally when I tried to order one online. I made the guy open the box before he sent it and sure enough it was a VIA chipset despite the manufacturers specs clearly stating TI chipset.
Other places Ive tried to order it online say they are out of stock.
Of course the local stores here in DC dont appear to have it either.
So one problem, namely mine, has unearthed a much greater problem. How many people are now going to be buying TI chipset cards only to find they arent actually TI chipsets? Why is this all of a sudden some rare commodity? And why would MOTU release a tech note THIS month stating you have to have something that you cant actually reliably procure?
BTW, I did install the latest drivers from MOTU on another machine which has an onboard TI chipset firewire port and there appeared to be immediate recognition of the MOTU device. So it appears there is something to this TI spec in relation to their drivers....
Now, theoretically, I think I could roll back both the firewire driver and the MOTU driver to the corresponding older versions, but locating them could be a challenge. When my hard drive died the data was retrieved but Im not sure system level stuff like drivers would be on there.
I finally found rainrecording.com and ordered what they guaranteed to be a TI chipset PCI card (they will take it back if its not a TI chipset). THe sales guy there confirmed the incredible difficulty in locating TI chipset PCI cards, and moreoever, locating them from a manufacturer that wont willy nilly change the chip without notice. It took them months of searching before they found a reliable manufacturer and found the right firewire specs that audio people could reliably use with Motu and whatever else
Why is the tech note dated this month, when this must have been an issue before? Why cant MOTU just write a new driver that works with more chipsets? How can motu say "you better check with the manufacturer" when the manufacturer will most of the time NOT guarantee their specs and NOT take back a card once opened? This is going to get ugly real fast.
Finally, there is the tech support guy who wasnt really interested in hearing about how I did use the MOTU device with a VIA chipset for years. Whats changed? In my case, drivers, I would suppose. Both windows and Motu. But no alternatives whatsoever were offered except a directive to purchase something that until I hold it in my hands tomorrow I have to say is just about unpurchasable.
If THIS puppy doesnt work then I guess I will have to buy a USB audio device. Ive been told that MOTU writes good reliable drivers. My experience indicates otherwise, unless someone can illuminate me.