MOTUnation.com

While I still have not had a crash in DP 5.13/Leopard, today a file I've been working diligently on for a while suddenly would not read from disk. Got that alert box saying "Disk Error. File could not be read from disk," along with some numbers or codes or whatnot. No problem, I thought. I've been saving copies every time I save the file, so I'll just go back to my most recent copy. As it were, that happened to have been only a half-hour prior, and for most of that half-hour I'd only been listening and modifying very slight adjustments. So, I click on it, and... "Disk Error. File could not be read from disk..." etc. Now I was getting worried. How many would I have to go through before one worked? What if ALL of them are somehow corrupted? Well, it turns out that I had to go back 4 hours to find one that wasn't corrupted. Four hours of really, really good work. I mean... Grammy quality work. (hey, as long as the big fish got away, it might as well be a PRIZE-quality big fish!!! )

This makes me furious. What is causing these disk errors? What the heck is going on here?

Take my advice: save a copy every time you save. (in addition to) Save it without audio files so that you can make 30 or 40 copies without filling up your drive. Every time you add audio, you can save the audio, too.

I've got to call MOTU and find out what's up with this disk error stuff.

Shoosh

I get this about once a week also... lately just changing the name produces another DP file (without all the audio) and that seems to work. But every once in a while the whole shebang is lost and I need to go back to the previously saved version.
Saving full blown copies at certain points is a great idea...
mi

That sounds like the worst nightmare. Thanks for the heads up, I'll definitely start saving more copies now, just in case.

I have experienced this symptom.

It's possible that the problem is not with the DP session file but with a referenced audio file.

Look in the Audio Files folder for the project. View by date. If you can open a backup of the DP session file that was created three days ago for example, look for any audio that was created since then. Can you drag that new audio into a new DP session file with no problems?

If you keep your project on an external drive, copy the DP session file to your desktop, then dismount the external drive. When you try to launch the DP session from the desktop, it won't find it's audio (because you dismounted the drive). If you can open the session file without it's audio, you know the session file is ok and the problem is an audio file.

In my case, file corruption issues have happened because I fill up my internal hard drive and don't do any disk maintenance. File corruption should be seen as a warning sign of a possible pending drive problem. Back up your files!

Dave

a few months ago, I opened a project to do some more work, and the little green progress bar went just about all the way to the end, and just sat there, I looked at the "force quit" window and DP was not responding.

Great!

I tried opening it again and no luck, same exact thing.

"No problem" I said to my self, I have an entire backup with audio files on my other HD. I tried to open it, and got the same exact response.

How in the world could two totally separate files on separate hard drives get corrupted?

I don't know, but my other projects opened just fine.

I sent the file to Dave Roberts (magicdave) and he said he was able to open it perfectly but he said, I don't have Native Instruments stuff here.

Hmmmmm,,, he sent me the file back without the Native "Instrument" tracks and it opened.

I still am aggravated at the fact that it seems like having duplicate back ups on a separate drive means nothing.

I am very grateful to Dave for saving it for me.

Dan

I have not got this error in a long time, but I noticed when I got it, I was trying to save the file on a slower drive. I had a firewire drive hooked up and was trying to save to it and it would give me the error almost every time, but it was a 5100rpm drive. So I quit trying to use a firewire drive and now use an internal drive, 7200rpm Raid 1. I suspect most of you use an internal drive now also, so this is probably not a problem, but that is one thing I noticed. Did this just start after an upgrade to something? or just all of a sudden? This does not sound good, and thanks for the advice on saving our files.... I better go do this as soon as I can.

thanks
PR

Ok, there are no audio files in this project. I'm working completely in MIDI at this point. I was almost ready to begin the audio phase, but this has set me back.

It is on an external FW drive, but I changed the name and put it on an internal SATA drive; still no luck.

There is something that usually starts happening within a day before a file corrupts like this: it has to do with editing continuous data in the MIDI Editor (multiple track editor version). I will select some data, click the Quickfilter, start to edit the data, but nothing happens... or so I think. Unclick the Quickfilter and I'll find that the hidden data, which was not selected, edited instead.

I just got off the phone with Tech Support about this. TS said that for the Reshape Tool, you must select the data type you're going to work on from the list in the pop-up menu. I actually argued with him a bit, because that's not how it works, but he insists that it is, and says that's why I'm getting this problem. (it's not how it works, and it's not why I'm getting the problem. Page 314 in the manual confirms my way of working, and that Tech Support is incorrect about this)

Anyway, this CC data editing mixup is a huge problem, and it's been doing this in every version of DP since 4.0. It's got to be fixed, but I can't get anyone at MOTU to listen to me. Magic Dave? You listening? Will you talk to the programmers about this? I cannot say for sure, but I think this may be related to file corruption. After this begins to happen, 95% of my file corruptions happen within a day or so. On the other hand, this happens at some point in every single file I work in. I've grown accustomed to it, and I know that if I switch out of Lines Mode and into Bars Mode, it will usually stop. Sometimes it's just a matter of hitting UNDO until it finally starts working on the correct data. But it's a serious problem when data that's not even visible is being edited.

I repeat: the mistaken data being edited is NOT selected. When I click the Reshape tool, my data deselects as if I've clicked the regular cursor on the background. It seems to have to guess which data to operate on at that point. Sometimes it gets it right, sometimes it doesn't.

About the Disk Error problem, Tech Support told me it was because I didn't install DP AFTER upgrading to Leopard. Oookayyy.... I'll do it. Just to say that I did it. But I've been having these same problems in DP -- especially the CC data mis-edit problem -- since DP 4.0, and I can't tell you how many times I've reinstalled DP in hopes of fixing it. It's really irritating when a tech support person tells me this, basically to get me off the phone, when I'm trying to report a problem that needs to go to Programming. I've been using Performer/DP since before some of those guys were probably born. I'd just appreciate it if they'd listen to me when I tell them my hunches, and not send me on some wild-goose chase with an installer disk.

Shooshie

In my previous post I said that Tech Support told me that my 103 Disk error was probably due to having upgraded to Leopard without reinstalling DP. I can't say he's wrong, since I don't have proof, but I suspect that has nothing to do with it. So here's my question: should I reinstall DP?

I've had no crashes with this setup. No quits. But I AM getting Error 103. Should I risk the stability of this setup by reinstalling? Or is it a known factor that you MUST re-install DP to avoid 103 errors?

AS for the CC data editing error, it's happened on every version of DP since version 4.0. Installing DP for the umpteenth time will not fix it.


Shooshie

Shooshie wrote:In my previous post I said that Joe at Tech Support told me that my 103 Disk error was probably due to having upgraded to Leopard without reinstalling DP. I can't say he's wrong, since I don't have proof, but I suspect that has nothing to do with it. So here's my question: should I reinstall DP?

I've had no crashes with this setup. No quits. But I AM getting Error 103. Should I risk the stability of this setup by reinstalling? Or is it a known factor that you MUST re-install DP to avoid 103 errors?

AS for the CC data editing error, it's happened on every version of DP since version 4.0. Installing DP for the umpteenth time will not fix it.


Shooshie

FWIW - I did *not* reinstall DP after doing my Leopard upgrade and have *not* (as of yet, at least) encountered and Error 103.

That being said, I'm like 99% audio. So maybe you're correct is suspecting the CC editing as he culprit.

Hey Shoosh,
Sorry you're having problems. That's no fun, but you're in good company here, and when we all work together we squash those problems into the ground! <Grin>

I think I may have got the disk error message a few weeks ago. You may already have it figured out as you explained below.

If not, my hunch would be a disk issue, something that can be fixed with the right disk utility...

Here's what I would do:

If you haven't already, I would recommend backing up. I would also run disk utility and repair permissions. You can use Disk Utility to verify your disk also, but you'll have to boot from another disk if you want to let Disk Utility Repair.

Do you have TechTool Pro? If so, I would then boot from another drive, or the TechTool Pro disk (You need v4.61 for Leopard) and run TechTool Pro.

I had the older version 4.53 and paid MicroMat $25+shipping to send the latest DVD out.

I had it find some volume structure errors and fix them recently. Also, I would eventually let it scan for bad blocks (probably an overnight venture) and make sure than any bad blocks are mapped out.

With regard to a leopard re-install, I wouldn't worry about it messing things up...

Another thing I sometimes do (as another over the top precaution) is to clone my good working boot drive in it's best known state, so that I can always go back to it if need be.

Keep us posted : )



PS You ARE tech support!

Shooshie wrote:In my previous post I said that Joe at Tech Support told me that my 103 Disk error was probably due to having upgraded to Leopard without reinstalling DP. I can't say he's wrong, since I don't have proof, but I suspect that has nothing to do with it. So here's my question: should I reinstall DP?

I've had no crashes with this setup. No quits. But I AM getting Error 103. Should I risk the stability of this setup by reinstalling? Or is it a known factor that you MUST re-install DP to avoid 103 errors?

AS for the CC data editing error, it's happened on every version of DP since version 4.0. Installing DP for the umpteenth time will not fix it.


Shooshie

I had a project just quit on me recently. I went to open it and dp just quit on the opening. So, I tried opening a file that I knew was good and dp quit on it too. I ran disk warrior and it went away.

This started happening with greater frequency about a year ago, so I'm not convinced it's Leopard only... and in my experiences, it's not just audio or MIDI. After a hard crash dp will ask if you want to locate audio files that have been trashed.. but with this certain disk write error the audio seems to be intact.. it just won't save it.
And as a rule I never let the drives get near half full.. that's asking for trouble.
I've been finding lately that the "save to another name" without copying audio routine works.. which would lead you to think that it's an audio file thing.. but when I open the new file all comes back fine. It happened to me last week on a file that really wasn't all that big or complex, but did contain both MIDI and audio.

mi

thanks guys. I remembered some of your threads/posts about this from the recent past, and brought them up to Tech Support. Those reports were not, how should I say it... given much credence. That disturbed me. I think this forum is where we find out what's up with DP before it becomes a big problem. The canaries in the coal mine.


Shooshie

Tweet, tweet, cough, cough....

I had that error today a few times while working in MIDI through a soft-sampler. I'm in Tiger. I traced it in the console logs to an OSX problem linked to the Apple IOKit. A few reboots cleared it up, but it had me fuming for a while. Occasionally the error was accompanies by a POP and then no sound until I reboot. So either OSX is not playing nice or DP5 is not playing nice with OSX.