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Using Leopard's Spaces with Digital Performer

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:13 pm
by Shooshie
In another thread, I mentioned that I've been using Spaces with Digital Performer. I thought it merited a thread of its own, with pictures, so that you all can see the idea and decide if you want to try it. I've been using it for many weeks with no adverse effects as far as I can tell. If you would like 2 monitors, or 3 or 4 or... however many you want, Spaces can give it to you instantly for nothing! On the one hand, it's a bit like a version 1.0 trick that needs a little more work. It could be made so much better if both Apple and MOTU would develop it a little more. If Apple will be sure that it's possible for a single application to be Spaces-aware, and if MOTU will make DP aware of Spaces, then this could be HUGE. For example, if we could save window sets that take advantage of Spaces, this would be tremendous. Currently I have to set up the windows for each session.

On the other hand, it's already extremely useful as-is. I just move windows to their Spaces as I need them and open them, and gradually the virtual monitors start filling up. In the time it takes your eyes to move to another real monitor(s), you can have another "space" in front of you. It gets to be 2nd nature to switch, and the time it takes is about 1/4 second. And you get unlimited monitors this way. Who needs 6 dang monitors cluttering up your workspace? Spaces can give you as many as you want in the footprint of one monitor. You can continue to add or remove spaces from your configuration as you need to without quitting applications. Windows just return to their default positions if you remove their spaces. Not that you need to be reconfiguring Spaces; I'm just noting that it's stable and updates in real time, so you don't have to worry about that.

Here is something I learned by doing this: you can easily fill up 2 monitors and yearn for more, so two monitors is a short-lived high. Soon you're back to craving another monitor. In Spaces your craving can be quenched in a few seconds merely by setting up another virtual monitor. In Digital Performer alone I'm currently filling up 3 Cinema Displays in Spaces. If I need any more, I can just add another space. It's really a good idea, even if you already have two monitors.

This picture shows the "index" against a generic background which you can also access with a key command, if you don't know which space you need to go to:
Image

See the same picture at higher resolution here.

The index works a little like Exposé; just click the panel you want, and instantly it goes there. But note that the index is merely an option. To move from space to space, you just hit a key, and instantly you are there.

But there is another reason to use the index: All panels are active in real time. If you want to watch everything at once, you can do so in the Spaces index. Imagine what you see in the picture, but all working in real time. You see the meters moving, you see MachFive's samples highlighting as the music plays each note. You see the cursor moving and the window scrolling. You can see the FFT display in Masterworks EQ, and so on and so forth. It's all working. Oh, and get this: I use my Roland FC300 footswitch to operate DP remotely. I've got play, record, rewind, wait, "enter counter into memory for auto-rewind", count-off, toggle memory, and toggle metronome click all programmed into footswitches. They work while in Spaces Index mode. So, I can actually USE DP while looking at all the virtual monitors at once. The Mac's keyboard will auto-select the space with the control panel in it, but the Roland Pedal works through MIDI, and therefore leaves the Index open. Pretty nifty, eh? 8)

You can see for yourself how I'm using Spaces in Digital Performer, so that's the scoop. Not a fully-developed solution until they give us the ability to save configurations, but certainly one with promise, and one you can use to great effect already.

Shooshie

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:21 pm
by IAMLFO
Sooshie,
If this ain't the cat's meow I don't know what is. I now have a reason to upgrade to Leopard ASAP.

Seriously, spaces are pure genius for audio apps. I can't wait to have them up and running on my iMac.

Well done, sir!

-Kevin

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:25 pm
by Shooshie
Oh... I almost forgot to tell you how to move windows. Just grab the window, hit your keyboard command for the Space you want, and bam! it's there. Or, you can just drag the window to the edge and bump against it for a second. As if you had leaned on the button for a secret passage, suddenly you're window will just fall into the next space.

That's all!

Shooshie

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:27 pm
by James Steele
Thanks Shooshie! I'm a big fan of the spaces feature in Leopard and I think I posted something about it on here. I did find that the UAD and PoCo plugs however didn't "stick" with their space. I wrote UA about it so hopefully they'll fix it. I can see this being very useful, although I hope that as Macs become more powerful, having so many "active" windows won't be much of a CPU drain.

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:37 pm
by Alan Craig
Glad you took the time to talk about this, Shooshie.

I've been using Spaces since day one with DP ••“ and it's a real help. I like having my mixer in full-scale in its own space so I can switch quickly between tracks and mix.

I've had no problems whatsoever: it's very stable.

You have highlighted the one problem: you have to set up your layout on each session. It would be nice if DP could "remember" where you had things, but this may need Apple to add some functionality to Spaces.

But I bet we see more on this in the future.

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:44 pm
by groove
Good info Shooshie.

Like Alan, I've been using Spaces since day one too: it's a great tool. I have Applications Assignments in the System Preferences and I put Screen Sharing app to a specific Space. I have a MacMini as my Firewire VTR, so when I need to change film reels a quick keystroke to switch spaces and voilà! In a flash DP and Reason are gone and I work on the mini! Keystrokes and back to DP.

Spaces and Screen Sharing are two indispensable tools in Leopard.

When UA Motu et al will be "Space Aware" its gonna be even better.

Re: Using Leopard's Spaces with Digital Performer

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:18 pm
by zed
Shooshie wrote:Currently I have to set up the windows for each session.
Just to be clear, DP does not currently remember where you put these windows as soon as you close your project, right? You cannot save the position of your palettes in these windows? I would hope DP 6 will have this problem resolved.

Spaces definitely looks like a very useful OS development. :-)

Re: Using Leopard's Spaces with Digital Performer

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:43 pm
by Shooshie
zed wrote:
Shooshie wrote:Currently I have to set up the windows for each session.
Just to be clear, DP does not currently remember where you put these windows as soon as you close your project, right? You cannot save the position of your palettes in these windows? I would hope DP 6 will have this problem resolved.

Spaces definitely looks like a very useful OS development. :-)
That's right, zed. It does NOT remember. That's the "further development" I'm hoping for. We should write to MOTU and ask them to work on that.

Shooshie

Re: Using Leopard's Spaces with Digital Performer

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:31 pm
by James Steele
Shooshie wrote:
zed wrote:
Shooshie wrote:Currently I have to set up the windows for each session.
Just to be clear, DP does not currently remember where you put these windows as soon as you close your project, right? You cannot save the position of your palettes in these windows? I would hope DP 6 will have this problem resolved.

Spaces definitely looks like a very useful OS development. :-)
That's right, zed. It does NOT remember. That's the "further development" I'm hoping for. We should write to MOTU and ask them to work on that.

Shooshie
Done deal... I wrote people I know there asking for a "Spaces aware" version that could reopen windows in appropriate spaces, etc. Hopefully this will be in DP6! :D

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:12 pm
by Talcott
I am so looking forward to my new Mactopus :!:


Thanks for the heads up Shooshie, this is very useful indeed.

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:38 am
by aletheian-alex
AWESOME! I have not jumped to Leopard yet... I am waiting for DP6. Anyway, i have been using this under 10.4.11: http://desktopmanager.berlios.de/

I just shut off all the silly icons and program the desktops 1-4 to F1-F4 keys. it has the same problem as Spaces where DP5 does not remember the settings, but it is easy to just minimize all the windows, switch to the appropriate desktop and then maximize the window to put it where it belongs.

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:02 am
by loff56
I too am digging the "Spaces" w/ Digital Performer. It's the first thing I tried when I installed Leopard.
Though, I am experiencing the same problem that James is with some of the plug-ins not "Sticking" to their space. In my case it's the Native Instruments' Kompakt window that came with the original EWQLSO (Silver) library.
It's very weird, every time I move the Kompakt Window to a new space, the main DP window follows it over. (But not the shuttle control window on top). It's like somehow the Kompakt window needs to be attached to the main window.
Anyway, besides that, all the other effects' windows that came with DP seem to be managing the "Spaces" just fine. It's probably the Kompakt plug-in that's buggy. Eh... I should upgrade those samples anyway...
But it's really quite a neat feature. No more digging through a dozen or more effects windows stacked in the upper right corner of my screen.

Anyone else experiencing this specific problem with Kompakt?

Good news: Spaces & DP -- Together Again in Snow Leopard!

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:47 pm
by Shooshie
GOOD NEWS!

• Spaces are Back in Snow Leopard: Better than ever! I can move all windows to their own spaces, or each window can appropriately co-habit with related windows in those spaces, and they stay there throughout the session without trying to migrate back to Digital Performer's "Native Space." For example, I can put the Mixing Board and certain plugin windows in Space 2, MIDI Edit Window in Space 3, Conductor Track Window in Space 4, and reserve Space 1 for the Consolidated Windows, which can house either the Tracks Overview Window or the Sequence Editor Window. When not using the Conductor Track Window, I can put the Sequence Editor in Space 4. Of course, I could add more spaces, but 4 is enough for me.

But here is the piece de resistance for using Spaces. In the Preferences —> Display —> Control Panel, you can select "Control Panel Floats" and the Control Panel and Shortcuts Window will follow you to all the spaces. That was the major drawback when I first started using Spaces in Tiger. The Control Panel was always back at Space #1. I could put a counter in another space, but that still left two spaces without references. No problem now. Just make the CP float, and you're in SPACE(s)!

Spaces will remember your window positions when moving from chunk to chunk, but not when opening a file. Once the file is open and the windows are saved in their spaces, you can go from chunk to chunk and the windows stay put. But every time you open a whole new file, you'll have to distribute your windows to their respective spaces. A small price to pay.

I tried setting up a windows capture for my Spaces arrangement. When I invoke that Window Set, it opens up the windows that were open in the set, but it does not distribute them to their logical "spaces." Nevertheless, you can grab each window individually and hold it while typing the command for the space to which you want to take it, and that space will zoom in, then release the window and it will stay in its new space. As I said earlier, windows will maintain these positions until the file is closed, even across chunks.

Spaces Cadet Shooshie

Re: Using Leopard's Spaces with Digital Performer

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:53 pm
by Shooshie
Hmmm... reading back over this post, I note that I forgot to update the thread after DP 6 came out. Combined with Leopard, it had broken the ability to keep windows in their own spaces throughout a session. The windows kept traveling back "home." It was a mess, and wasn't worth the trouble. So, I've been without my Spaces in DP feature since last fall or winter, sometime. I did correctly note this in the Tips Sheet thread, where the Spaces post also appears. I will be adding the current news as a footnote to that Spaces post in the Tips Sheet Thread.

Spaces Cadet Shooshie