Mixing for damaged ears?

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Weekendshooter
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Mixing for damaged ears?

Post by Weekendshooter »

Had an interesting chat the other day and thought I'd bounce it off the group...

Was recording a band at a dinner club the other evening and struck up a friendly conversation with a patron who happened to be an audiologist . Got to discussing hearing damage prevalent amongst youth these days (he say's those numbers are up compared to days of yesteryear).

Got to wondering if hyping frequencies a couple db in consideration of damaged ears (mostly highs he said) was something common these days (MDR 7506's come to mind)? Or do we just audition mixes to those with damaged hearing !?!?!?!

Still striving to mix neutral but thought it a potentially interesting edge for certain genres of music...

Just pondering...

Thoughts?

Andy 8)
gregwhartley
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Post by gregwhartley »

I can't stand to listen on regular retail consumer headphones (even many "pro" phones). It's not that I'm an audiophile snob, my ears just don't ever feel right with those damned tiny buds. I can only imagine all the fatigue normal consumers inflict on themselves as a result of such mobile audio devices. I don't even like to talk on the phone for more than a few seconds!

I've got a friend who insists on shelving his car stereo's adjustable highs (starting around 10kHz) by what seems to be no less than 12dB of boost. He swears that it sounds right and that I must just prefer a mid-rangey sound. His BOSS guitar processor is similarly EQ'd with a disgusting (not the good kind) amount of high end. I'm talking beyond unnatural high end. Like the kind of high end you don't find common in normal people's hearing tolerance. Any time we record for shiznaws and giggles I find myself having to delicately approach "his sound" to make it more palatable and able to fit in with all the other "normal" sounding instruments (with natural frequency ranges).

I suppose that it may all be perspective, but I've often wondered if my friend's (as well as others') taste is a byproduct of what he's been listening to all his life (i.e., a preference which he has acquired form so much mid-scooped metal) or if it's a sign that his hearing is just completely shot. Unfortunately, I suspect it is the latter.

In either case, whether it be preference or necessity, I believe it better to mix naturally and leave the seasoning to the end listener's requirements. Those who need it can always blast the treble with the help of their fancy car and home stereos, leaving the rest of us with our more tasteful 0 - +/-3 dB boosts/cuts.
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jrdmcdnld
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Post by jrdmcdnld »

Instead of the loudness wars, we'll have the brightness wars.
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robstudio
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Post by robstudio »

Hello all... timing of this post is funny for me... I'm acutally considering enrolling in an Audiologist masters degree program. I've got electronics ed, and a recording arts diploma .... I figure it's not so far from what I love.... and I might be able to make some good $$$$ (which I'll end up spending on gear anyway...). - - I predict the impact of in ear headphones, and the amount of senseless users, I've personally observed on the subway / streets will cause a huge rise in hearing loss related issues, in the coming years. If I can hear what your listening to, 3-4 people away, over the sound of the train .... hmmm you'll be buying a hearing aid from me in a few years.... or less. Add that in with our aging population, and the demand for these services is only going to increase. At any rate, personally, what I record... I refuse to get into loudness wars, I will not over compress my recordings... ever. IMO - to start boosting highs in an effort to become LOUDER is unethical, it will cause further hearing loss, no doubt... but really I don't think a shrill sounding recording is going to appeal to many folks, so I don't see it becoming a huge issue.... I hope, intersting to ponder....
Regards, Rob
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monkey man
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Post by monkey man »

gregwhartley wrote:In either case, whether it be preference or necessity, I believe it better to mix naturally and leave the seasoning to the end listener's requirements. Those who need it can always blast the treble with the help of their fancy car and home stereos, leaving the rest of us with our more tasteful 0 - +/-3 dB boosts/cuts.
Yup. Leave it to the consumers to mess up, I reckon.
jrdmcdnld wrote:Instead of the loudness wars, we'll have the brightness wars.
Scary. I belive that crankin' the brightness will only exacerbate the problem as it would encourage lazy ears.
You know - use it or lose it.

Folks just aren't as good at listening as they used to be are they? Are they? Hello? :lol:
The active component seems to have been lost somewhat, surely a symptom of a lack of empathy as well as a "bring it to me and lay it on" approach to the listening process and indeed to life.
If we don't like the delivery, we tend now to turn away more, rather than put any work into "listening in" to the material.
The latter action would constitute gym work for the ear/brain, IMHO, and partially explains the rise in tinnitis incidence.
Case in point - consider that we all used to listen to AM radio; that was a workout.
So along comes FM, and what does it do? It lays it all on thicker than dried molasses.
Then, just to add insult to injury, along come perscanal... um... personal earphones, and they literally ram it down your throat.
I know, the increased volume at which we tend to listen nowadays is usually blamed, but I believe the ultimate cause of this itself is laziness.

You know, back in the day, the old school method of dealing with tinnitis was to encourage the subject to "listen in" to many and varied sources.
Actually, this was Bernard Jensen's (a pioneer of iridology and naturopathy) method in the '40s.

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robstudio
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Post by robstudio »

Hey Monkey,
d'you say something??? .... oh yes the lost art of listening indeed!

Then, just to add insult to injury, along come perscanal... um... personal earphones, and they literally ram it down your throat.
I know, the increased volume at which we tend to listen nowadays is usually blamed, but I believe the ultimate cause of this itself is laziness.
You know, I believe there is a place for these... I've had a couple different portables.... interesting take... the first one I had... I found listening on the subway at a reasonable level, but to get over the train noise, my ears would ring sometimes.... didn't like that. I tried a "new" one with phase noise cancelling .... what a dream (other than the stinkin' pc software)... can listen at low levels and hear eveything.... I just find the number of people blowing their ears out, to be astounding.
Regards, Rob
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monkey man
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Post by monkey man »

Great solution, Rob. :D

I assume they allow speech, as it's not constant, but denoise sustained ambient noise?
If so, great stuff. :D

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daniel.sneed
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Post by daniel.sneed »

I use a pair of Shure E4c earbuds.
With the yellow foam tips they provide extreme isolation.
Rather picky to adjust in ears, but then I can listen at very low level in noisy places. Even in my car (not a good idea, I know !) windows wide opened.
Nobody can say what I'm listening to. Even lending an ear on me in complete (!) silence.
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robstudio
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Post by robstudio »

I assume they allow speech, as it's not constant, but denoise sustained ambient noise?
If so, great stuff.
mmm not so much, more tends to whack the whole spectrum .... the idea's actually the exact same as balanced cable, they're mics in the .... aww I'll give you a link, I'll be here all night ...lol more FYI than anything...
Regards, Rob
.....
.......
........ well that was an exercise in frustration .... Sony's redone their website .... in flash, back button returns you to the home page .... I hate that, I can't navigate the menus either.... skips all over, friggin sony.

ok so where was I???? oh yeah, they're actually little mics in the ear pieces, they 180 the phase and add both back into what's getting piped into your head.... it works absolutly like a dream... to bad about their software .... and website ... and corporate policies in general... I hope this post remotely makes sense, sorry.
Regards, Rob
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monkey man
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Post by monkey man »

robstudio wrote:... they're actually little mics in the ear pieces, they 180 the phase and add both back into what's getting piped into your head.... it works absolutly like a dream... to bad about their software .... and website ... and corporate policies in general...
I suspected as much.
At first when the technology became cheap I assumed they all worked this way, but as it's been a few years now, I've come to hope that a smart NR algorithm was responsible.
I imagined something that adapted itself to noiseprints taken over several rolling seconds, a window if you like, and applied a user-adjustable amount of NR.
A system like this would likely allow most speech through, whilst lowering constant environmental noises.

Oh well, it'll possibly happen one day.
robstudio wrote: I hope this post remotely makes sense, sorry.
Regards, Rob
Hey, of course it did - you're speaking Unicorn, aren't you? :D
Thanks man.

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