POWERCORE cards and plugin warning! BEWARE!

[hellcat]

This is probably NOT the right forum for this, but since my heart is so close to MachFive these days, I thought I'd give other uses a little input.

TC Works has succeeded in completely making me angry, and I've decided that after buying THREE Powercore cards their lack of support and the way they've treated the following situation has left me wtih no alternative than to be very sorry I paid any money for their products. I'm telling you this to warn you about what their idiotic policies are like.

I previously had two Powercore cards. I purchased an extra plugin -- the Voicemodeler -- and used this with them. Then my G4 mac died, and I had to buy a new Mac Intel. Then I purchased a new Powercore card, the PCIe model, for use in the new MacIntel machines because the new machines can't use the other two cards. So that left me with two useless cards (one only used a month before my machine died!).

So, After buying the third and newest Powercore card, I sold my other two on Ebay. Now TC Works are telling me that I cannot use the plug in that I paid $250 for, because they say I need to return the original card back. Can you imagine if MOTU said we all have to return our copies of MachFive or DP before we can get a new one? OUTRAGEOUS!!!

They won't let me download a new version of the plug in unless I return the actual Powercore card! But this was a separate purchase, which I downloaded from their site. NOT WITH THE POWERCORE CARD! I've never encountered this before, and as I've always understood that when you purchase a software, you purchase a license, then why won't they let me use my license for the plug in?

This has resulted in me being one dissatisfied customer. I will never purchase one of their products again -- and the Powercore platform has always been extremely buggy on the mac anyway.

Arrogant companies like this, who tell their customers to go screw themselves, will quickly find their customers dwindling in numbers. I for one learned my lesson, after shelling out well over $3000 in sound cards and plug ins to TC Works. They only stab you in the back and leave you out to hang.

So if you're considering a powercore card, beware. This whole sitaution is completely unacceptable, and unneccesary as well. If they had a policy for their plug ins like all other companies have, this wouldn't have happened.

Be afraid. Be very afraid!

[bjornln]

I don't have a powercore. But..

Could it be that the license you bought is linked to the card in some way ?
So, the new owner of the card has a license to the plug.
Also, wasn't it written about it in the manual ?
If not, you might have a case...



/B

[mhschmieder]

I'm hesitant to answer a post that is in the wrong forum, but as I just got done with my own drama regarding Powercore, I have seen a good number of their FAQ's and forum postings and feel this was likely a simple misunderstanding that regretably TC has not been very forgiving at their end in terms of resolving.

They do have some specific instructions on how to remove additional licenses from a card before selling it. It sounds like you didn't do that, and so whoever bought your card probably now "owns" them even though they aren't registered at TC's website. This is a poor policy on TC's part as it is confusing, illogical, incosnsistent, and will be missed by customers who don't spend hours on their website before taking an action that would be straightforward for most products from most other vendors.

I have personally found TC to be inconsistent and slow in initial response but very good once someone is actually dealing with your particular case on a one-on-one basis. Did you initially file something in their on-line system? This is what they expect, and though I had long ago given up and "pulled strings" to get things taken care of through my original vendor, I was quite impressed with how much followup they did once they finally answered my original query regarding the hardware fault.

[hellcat]

I think TC Work's case would be stronger if the plug ins were bought WITH the card. However, I purchased the plug in in question separately from the actual card, at a later date.

By European consumer law, I don't think they are allowed to do this. In fact, I've already reported this to our ombudsman here in Norway -- these are the same cats that got after Apple for non-copying of iTunes and won, as well as other cases.

Its just such a damn drag to spend $250 for something and then the company just blows you off....

[monkey man]

Hey Hellcat,

I know the feeling well, and TC certainly has delivered it (the feeling!) in spades.
I'm hoping to leave PoCo and all its foibles behind when I eventually move to Intel.

Hey, my mum's family is Norwegian; her maiden name is "Roering".
My ancesters lived on Skaelver, one built and ran the church that still stands today.

He also bootlegged alcohol in order to supply the entire island, which he practically ran.

[hellcat]

From Norway to Australia, Monkey Man? We don't have monkies, but we do have "nisser" (elves) which can be a pesty problem here. DDT usually takes care of them, but sometimes we have to get out the ol' shotgun.

Yeah, Powercore....what a drag! They've certainly lost me on this one. I mean, the arrogance of their customer policies. THANK GOAWD MOTU DOESN'T ACT THIS WAY (except for an occiasional silence of a few years....ahem...).

Anyway, I'll never waste money on another TC Works item again. Its really a shame. Companies really need to learn how to appreciate their customers, not piss them off.

[Bennie Sims]

Their firewire plugs don't work without consistently kernel panicking my intel mac. They have had six versions for the mac pro and none of them work without kernel panics. I can't even find a buyer for this lousey product. I agree TC stinks!

[emulatorloo]

Yeah, Powercore....what a drag! They've certainly lost me on this one. I mean, the arrogance of their customer policies.

I am not thrilled w TC either, howecer they are pretty clear on their website that the plugs you buy are linked to a specific card.

From their website:

"With the Software authorization process, the Software is tied to a specific hardware and can not be transferred to a different hardware, except in case of a hardware failure."

---

It is crappy. I think the best thing is to not do business w them anymore.

However if I were you, I would contact your Ebay buyer and let him or her know that they now also own Voice Modeler:

"You may transfer all your license right in the Software, the backup copy of the Software, the related documentation and a copy of this License to another party, solely in combination with the hardware it is authorized for."

------

[mhschmieder]

Thanks, emulatorloo, for taking the time to cut/paste the exact policy statements from the TC website that I alluded to earlier. It is very clearly spelled out, but is a regretable policy nonetheless.

Remember that TC is a large company with many divisions, and that Powercore is not their main bread and butter and is probably pretty far down the feeding hierarchy. That doesn't excuse the problems people have had, but it isn't the same as judging a company like Waves who only make one thing: plug-ins (and now hardware DSP accelerators for those plug-ins).

TC's main business is broadcasting, where they rule supreme. They also either own or are partners with Dynaudio, who are one of the top makers of quality pro studio monitors. The company started in the 70's making guitar pedals (analog, not digital) and have recently returned to that business in force.

More recently, their consumer and pro-sumer focus has been mostly on audio interfaces. They have some innovative new product in that area, and most of them are shipping with adapted Powercore plug-ins. I am guessing their resources are rather tied up in that effort, but that there will also be some ruboff benefit for the Powercore community on short order.

FWIW, my Powercore Firewire replacement unit is working flawlessly, but several of the demo licenses tick away when not in use. As I have no interest in any reverb other than Altiverb at this point, nor in TC's software compressors, it doesn't bother me so much. I bought Powercore because it's the only thing out there that does the job well for what I need it for, which is high-end mastering (without spending $6000 for System 6000) and audio restoratiion. I couldn't care less about the stuff that people always use to criticise it with when comparing vs. UAD-1. But there are some new vintage emulation plug-ins for Powercore; though expensive.

When my Powercore firewire replacement unit arrived a few weeks ago and worked, I decided to skip the $500 PCIe upgrade offer and wait another year on upgrading to a MacPro and just hope they re-run that offer again in a year (apparently they do similar offers every summer). But the only native solutions I could find for what I plan to do, have been canceled or have gone ProTools-only in recent months. So I bought Powercore out of necessity; not as a stop-gap to doing a CPU upgrade. I need the CPU upgrade anyway, but can wait a bit longer. Powercore does not address that issue in any way. I am surprised that so many people write it off (and even UAD-1) as being unnecessary with today's more powerful CPU's.

[monkey man]

From Norway to Australia, Monkey Man? We don't have monkies, but we do have "nisser" (elves) which can be a pesty problem here. DDT usually takes care of them, but sometimes we have to get out the ol' shotgun.

I went via Africa, where I lived for 12 years.
DDT, eh? Dang, that explains my chemical sensitivity.

Yeah, Powercore....what a drag! They've certainly lost me on this one. I mean, the arrogance of their customer policies. THANK GOAWD MOTU DOESN'T ACT THIS WAY (except for an occiasional silence of a few years....ahem...).

Agreed. Ignoring the needs of customers is arrogance.

Anyway, I'll never waste money on another TC Works item again. Its really a shame. Companies really need to learn how to appreciate their customers, not piss them off.

You know, when my PoCo PCI MkII arrived two years back, it took me 2 months to be able to even check the plugs out.
It caused kernel panics right out of the box, and the shipment was barely 2 weeks old.
A note in the box or a PDF stating that alternative drivers may be required from the website would have been thoughtful, as opposed to arrogant, and saved this monkey a whole lot of pain and time.

I sure hope DP includes sufficient killer plugs in the future so that I never have to deal with them again once I buy a Mac Pro.
Aah... one day.

[mhschmieder]

At any rate, it sounds like I wouldn't improve stability or performance considerably by going to an Intel Mac and switching from Firewire to PCIe, so in a sense your unfortunate problems have had a positive ruboff benefit on my own future expenditures .

[hellcat]

Well, they've changed their tune, so to speak, those arrogant cats at TC Works. Sometimes it helps to nag, nag, nag, complain, complain...until they just get sick of you, you know? I stood my ground, insisting that I was right in this and thier policy was wrong, and now someone higher up decided to transfer the plug in I bought to my new card. I mean, what do they expect -- me to just dish out moola and then when I go to a new mac, they dump me?

So, the moral is -- don't give up. After all, we all waited two years for MAchFive2, so I suppose the lengthy protest action (the nights of drinking cocktails in line with the rest of you, the barbque food, the monkey poo throwing contests, etc.) has taught me to BE BRAVE.

Thanks to all my UnicorNation pals for their support, their moral guidance, their spiritual advisement, and their ju-ju work while showing me the divine light of how being a pain in the ass sometimes can really help!
javascript:emoticon(':lol:')

[/b]

[monkey man]

So, the moral is -- don't give up. After all, we all waited two years for MAchFive2, so I suppose the lengthy protest action (the nights of drinking cocktails in line with the rest of you, the barbque food, the monkey poo throwing contests, etc.) has taught me to BE BRAVE.

And to keep a towell and soap close to hand, mehopes!

Great news, Hellcat, great news, man.

[emulatorloo]

I stood my ground, insisting that I was right in this and thier policy was wrong, and now someone higher up decided to transfer the plug in I bought to my new card.

THAT'S FANTASTIC!!!!!! WoNDERFUL -- I am so glad they did the right thing.

--

[monkey man]

I stood my ground, insisting that I was right in this and thier policy was wrong, and now someone higher up decided to transfer the plug in I bought to my new card.

THAT'S FANTASTIC!!!!!! WoNDERFUL -- I am so glad they did the right thing.
--

Agreed, 'Loo, even if it did require coersion and threats.

To be forthcoming is a rare trait indeed for a large company, so rare, in fact, that I'm not sure I've ever seen it.