Recommendations for Guitar to Disk (no amp) recording?

[SixStringGeek]

I'm in a place where I can't really fire up a guitar amp/mic combo to record guitar tracks. I'm seeing these "amp modelling" boxes available - are they decent?

I am a guitarist who loves the warm tube tones of his Mesa Boogie. I dislike the sterility of transistors, but I'm impressed by the synth emulations out there and wondering if amp emulation is anywhere near as mature.

[jarok]

Hi

Try Native Instruments Guitar Rig 2.

http://www.nativeinstruments.de/index.p ... 4126d20f00

jarok

[chrispick]

I'm in a place where I can't really fire up a guitar amp/mic combo to record guitar tracks. I'm seeing these "amp modelling" boxes available - are they decent?

I am a guitarist who loves the warm tube tones of his Mesa Boogie. I dislike the sterility of transistors, but I'm impressed by the synth emulations out there and wondering if amp emulation is anywhere near as mature.

Amp sim softwares won't compare to the tone of your Mesa Boogie, I'm afraid. However, they can be good tools for laying down sketch parts, playing with arrangements and other "rough drafting." And, as you note, they're a lot quieter.

I use NI Guitar Rig 2 and a Vox ToneLab for such tasks.

I should add: Sometimes, amp sims can work well in a mix if they aren't a dominant part. I played some guitars parts for a videogame track recently, and all of the overdriven parts went through a head and stacks (Marshall and Randall). However, one chorused, arpeggiated part ended up sounding best via DI out of my ToneLab in stereo and into an Avalon instrument pre. Since it was an accent part essentially, it worked fine. To boot, I very often use Guitar Rig to add some cabinet feel to DI'ed bass guitar (6176 driven, then some Ampeg sim). Again, it's supplementary, but it helps.

[rcannonp]

I tried out the demos of Guitar Rig and Amplitube. I generally like GR better, but Amplitube had one cool feature that I liked. It would allow you to cut off the power amp circuit so that you could use Amplitube like a preamp to run out to an external power amp. You could record your tracks with Amplitube and then reamp them later in a more appropriate time and place for loud amps. Reamping GR didn't sound bad, but it was more like recording the sound from a PA than directly from an amp.

For fake amp tones I really prefer my POD though. It sounds convincing enough and there is no CPU hit. I checked out the software emulators to try and bring my Marshall back into the mix by reamping the recorded signal through it.

[BradLyons]

Well, you might want to consider this..... it is a SUBSTANTIAL difference!

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/IsolationCab/

[monkey man]

Amp sim softwares won't compare to the tone of your Mesa Boogie, I'm afraid. However, they can be good tools for laying down sketch parts, playing with arrangements and other "rough drafting." And, as you note, they're a lot quieter.
I use NI Guitar Rig 2 and a Vox ToneLab for such tasks.
I should add: Sometimes, amp sims can work well in a mix if they aren't a dominant part. I played some guitars parts for a videogame track recently, and all of the overdriven parts went through a head and stacks (Marshall and Randall). However, one chorused, arpeggiated part ended up sounding best via DI out of my ToneLab in stereo and into an Avalon instrument pre. Since it was an accent part essentially, it worked fine. To boot, I very often use Guitar Rig to add some cabinet feel to DI'ed bass guitar (6176 driven, then some Ampeg sim). Again, it's supplementary, but it helps.

I so want to be you one day, Chris.

The (mostly projected, but not channelled) monkey method•„• for guitar and bass will be to direct inject into the Mackie's "guitar" inputs, send a bleed via dedicated auxes to the PODxt and Bass PODxt, and return those signals to the Mackie so that their direct outs can be recorded alongside the "direct" direct outs. Phew.

The idea is to capture the direct signal for blending, tonal options and reamping (24I/O directly to relevant PODxt), alongside the arbitrarily chosen amp sim patch, which I expect won't often contain reverb or delay-based effects. I've no idea how often I'll end up reamping tracks; I expect it'll be more frequent than I'd like at this stage of the adventure.
As I learn where the heck it is I'll be heading, I imagine it'll get easier to predict/choose the appropriate sounds at the tracking stage.

Thank you for indulging me; I've not heard of it done quite this way and so hoped it might help someone, somehow.
Oh yeah, and feel free to tell me why I'm way off here, and it just won't work. As soon as I've parsed my 198 bus initial project template down to something sane, it'll be time to find out I s'pose.
Again, thank you for indulging me.

Monkey obsequiously retreats and limps off to his den of in... eptitude.

[Resonant Alien]

Look into an amp load+speaker simulator box like a Palmer, Motherload or SPL Transducer. It will let you record the output of your amp without a speaker connected and get real guitar tone silently. More expensive than software, but oh so much nicer..

[Kind Of Loud]

Just keep in mind, that these units are NOT plug and play. You gotta mess with them to get something you like. If you're not into "tweaking", you'll probably have no use for them.
That said.....
You can get some decent results. I did this short clip for ya', to get an idea. It's not intended for "engineering" skills. Just a crappy mp3 backing track, jamming with my Strat and PodXTPro.

http://www.netmusicians.org/files/53-Le ... %20mix.mp3

[SixStringGeek]

Look into an amp load+speaker simulator box.

Thanks, I just priced the SPL Transducer, it seems for comparable $'s I could go with Mesa's solution.

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/ ... reAmp.html

They are a bit over a kilobuck each.

I was hoping for something cheaper. I just got in a M-Audio BlackBox. There are some innovative (gimmicky) effects and some so-so tones. With a lot of tweaking, I could get some better than so-so tones by using up the effects capability to add subtle fattening via tuned modulators, but it took a lot of tweaking and I never got anything really warm sounding.

So I was looking at the Vox ToneLabLE which claims to have a little tube amp for tone in it and hoping it was a solution. Sounds like maybe it isn't.

[chrispick]

So I was looking at the Vox ToneLabLE which claims to have a little tube amp for tone in it and hoping it was a solution. Sounds like maybe it isn't.

They're releasing a new version (SE, I believe?) which promises greater resolution, FWIW. 24bit, more I/O options, a few new cab emulations maybe.

Like I said above, boxes like the ToneLab can be usable in tracking situations -- just depends on the application. It sounded great in the example I cited.

But, if you're talking overdriven tones, you still gotta push some tubes, then push some air to get the right vibe, I think.

[chrispick]

The idea is to capture the direct signal for blending, tonal options and reamping (24I/O directly to relevant PODxt), alongside the arbitrarily chosen amp sim patch, which I expect won't often contain reverb or delay-based effects. I've no idea how often I'll end up reamping tracks; I expect it'll be more frequent than I'd like at this stage of the adventure.

I have a friend who uses his PODxt for reamping, and I think he gets results he likes.

I know Radial makes a few boxes that can help you track DI and amp (or multiple amps) simultaneously. Maybe check those out?

Personally, I like to mic an amp once per pass and be done with it. I don't like to revisit tones and stuff like that. I like to capture what I put out, then deal with it.

[SixStringGeek]

if you're talking overdriven tones, you still gotta push some tubes, then push some air to get the right vibe, I think.

Actually, it was the clean sounds rhythm that put me off. I actually think it is easier to fake flat out drive than a warm clean-ish tone. There are some slash lead kinds of sounds that were plenty OK with enough delay. But there's just something about the interaction of the harmonics in an overdriven power chord that isn't there in the solid state stuff.

[Kind Of Loud]

But there's just something about the interaction of the harmonics in an overdriven power chord that isn't there in the solid state stuff.

If your tone requirements are THAT deep.....Stay way from modelling devices.

[chucks]

At the risk of starting a Behringer flame, check out the V-Amp Pro. Coupled with a good compressor or tube pre to soften the output a little, it has a very good sound. Just don't clock it to anything else or use the digital output - harsh and much thinner. Check out the reviews at:

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/revi ... p+Pro/10/1

[JadeLatrell]

Another trick, which really isnt a trick, with the modelling sims (all of them to my knowledge) is to NOT use the presets that came with the box.

Most of them, even the Behringer I dare say, can sound much much better if you make your own patches. Thats a hard thing about demoing them in the store, you pretty much have to make a decision based on the factory presets.

I have found that the software sims (Guitar Rig, Amplitube, etc.) are a little better in this department but still, make your own sounds!