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Where should i place the mic in the bass drum if i want a really powerfull sound with a bit of a click. Is there any certain mic pre-amp you would suggest or anything? I have the Beta 52 mic. Thanks

Well, that's a loaded question---there are many ways to get to where you're heading depending on the quality of the drums, the gear you have and knowing how to use that gear. Personally, I use an Audix D6 through a soundhole on the kick about half-way in but when I have the extra mics available--I prefer a large diaphragm tube condenser on the outside of the sound-hole. BUT the key to that click, IMHO, is to mike the beater-side of the kick, right next to the pedal. I have a BLUE Kickball for this, mixed in it sounds great! Now grant it, I'm also using a Presonus ADL600 for the main kick and snare mics, that certainly helps a great deal too.

The key to a great kick sound is to get a combination of THUD and AIR as well as added click. But gear aside, don't forget something so simple....the beater itself. I use a wood beater, it makes all the difference.

I like to take the resonant head off the kick when I record. I have found that removing the front head allows for more air to flow and a much more natural sound.

I generally record kick with 2 mics...I use a D112 or a Beta 52 inside the drum to collect the attack and some of the sustain...then I use a large condensor on the outside to pick up the overall sound.

I saw once at a studio here in phx someone hooked up a NS10 woofer to a mic stand and put it in front of the drum...so I got to thinking, I dont have any NS10's, but I have some high end Cerwin Vega bookshelf speakers, so I wired it up to a DI box, then to the mic pre to and placed it in front of the drum...What I got was a pretty interesting sound considering that the woofer and the tweeter were collecting sounds. I was able to get a pretty wide range of sound from that and use it to thicken up the kick sound.

I know Yamaha makes the "sub kick" wich is basically the same concept but its made specifically for that purpose.

Anyways...thats what I do. good luck.

I certainly can't argue with any of the advice above. But one thing to remember is experiment. Try a mic placement, listen, move it, listen, move it again, listen, etc. Sometimes a half an inch can make a difference. Take your time and listen is my best advice.

Phil

I agree with Phil.
If I may be so bold, I'd go as far as saying that placement is almost everything.

Consider that "great" bass drum sounds have been coaxed from everything from SM57s to, well, other "crappy" and inappropriate mics.
Non purpose-built mics still generally have "full" responses; they just taper off.
Placement experimentation and careful listening should allow you to overcome most of this limitation.

zara_drummer wrote:I saw once at a studio here in phx someone hooked up a NS10 woofer to a mic stand and put it in front of the drum...

That reminds me of this photo of Neil Peart's recent recording setup that shows something similar (I try to ignore the daunting setup and potential phase issues and stare only at the speaker in the bass drum):
www.neilpeart.net/news/images/studio_nep_th.jpg

(there's a large version of this photo here: www.neilpeart.net/news/images/studio_nep.jpg


(edit: looks like the webmaster at the above site didn't like the hotlinking of that image from this site, so he redirected those direct links from here to some other site, so clicking on the above links probably won't work anymore; you'd have to copy the link and paste it in a new window. oh well.)

Audio Technica 4047sv is an amazin' kick drum mic as well. But you need to carve it a bit with subtractive EQ. It can handle very high SPLs.

Experiment. Seriously, play around a lot.

Jeff

monkey man wrote:Consider that "great" bass drum sounds have been coaxed from everything from SM57s to, well, other "crappy" and inappropriate mics.

True Dat

For a clicky sound, there's a thing they sell at GC and other places that's a piece of phenolic or hard plastic that applies with adhesive to where the beater contacts the head. I haven't tried a wood beater yet, but I bet you'd get a really hot click with both (until you cracked the plastic disk with brute force, anyway).

I put my D112 inside the kick, about an inch and a half from where the beater contacts the head. Blanket in the drum contacting the head for a dry sound, and no blanket for ring and sustain.

I'm not a big fan of those plastic disc's... for me they tend to take away from the natural response from the kick head wich I depend on alot when I play.

I instead use the back side of a DW beater, and a nylon adheasive pad on the head itself. This allows the head to resonate enough for some bottom end and the attack of the plastic side of the beater is very very clicky...If you want it to be.


I've seen that pic of Peart's kit...INSANE the mic's they have set up on that. I also saw the kick head woofer thing...Pretty cool and pretty crazy how they managed to mic all that and get it to sound phenominal! lol

I like a big THUD of a kick sound, I have a pet-bed in mine and well, it deadens it up alright! LOL the funny thing I was replacing a head one time, went downstairs for 5-minutes and came back to see this:

Hmm... now we know how Twisted Tom's kittens ended up looking like they've gone psychotic on ice.

Pretty much concur with what Brad and everybody has said here. Might add that a shure beta/sm 91 (the flat boundry time mic) doesn't sound good by itself without eq- but it can supply click when placed inside the bass drum (and this mic can be done that way even with double heads if you can find a hole large enough to fit it's minixlr connector). It's good with another mic, like a LD condensor outside, or sometimes with a lot of EQ.
But in recording anything the most important influence is the sound in the room- is the drum tuned the way you want it,how hard and consistant is the drummer hitting it, does it have the right beater etc.
A note to watch out for- getting click and boom is tricky- it can easily sound like two seperate instruments instead of a single unified drum. I've heard some metal where this is the case (particularly with double beaters) so it may be desirable to some, but consider whether the effect supports the particular music being played rather than distracts from it. (Different songs may call for different kick sounds/ tunings).

Good luck with all the abundance of creative possibilities.

I've tried a variation of this to fairly good effect to get rid of the room sound of the kick: make a tent with sound blankets and enclose the kick and mic inside. This'll also reduce or eliminate the bleed from the other mics into the kick mic and vice-versa. This probably isn't appropriate for all styles of music, like say acoustic jazz trio, but no other single technique is either.

Ultimately, a good clean kick track can be mangled in so many wonderful ways in the mix stage. Try hammering it with the compressor section of the DP Preamp-1 plug-in, followed by PSP MaxBass or similar harmonic generator, and extend the delay with a 50% wet mix of a reverb plug. Or... use a low cut and high cut EQ to restrict the frequencies to between 40-80 Hz to stay out of the way of the bass instrument. Use Trigger to trigger a sample on a drum machine. Trigger a sample of something that's not even a drum. Go nuts.

my thing is that if you can't get a decent BD sound from a d112 placed just inside the hole, then the drum isn't tuned right. click is sooooo esy to get with gating and EQ. My main sound comes from a d112, and sometimes i augment with a 12" speaker as an out side "sub" mic (or a AT 4050)