Why does Apple call the Mac Mini's audio out Optical

[Resonant Alien]

I was checking out the MacMini, and the audio output is labeled as "optical". However, it is actually a 3.5mm S/PDIF connection. Where the heck does Apple get "optical" out of this????

[Frodo]

RA-- can you point to a link?

I'm actually seeing this:

Combined optical digital audio input/audio line in (minijack)
Combined optical digital audio output/headphone out (minijack)

from this page:
http://www.apple.com/macmini/whatsinside.html

The "combined optical digital minijack" thingy strikes me as unusual. (What's an optical mini?) Headphone out would suggest analog-- so, headphone mini and optical combined? Ooo-- new adapters for an economy of space. Clever.

Did a word search on this page for 'dif" (uncertain if 'spdif' or 's/pdif' would appear). Came up with nothing. S/PDIF would suggest a single stereo RCA type connector. Might be redundant (if I can find it) with a combo analog mini and digital optical I/O.

Just thinking out loud.

S/PDIF. Hmm.

Just for reference:

[Resonant Alien]

Here's a link to the PDF manual on the Apple Support site.

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Mac_mi ... ly2006.pdf

On page 50, the paragraph is titled "Headphone Out/Optical Digital Audio Out Port", but the text says the headphone jack is "also a S/PDIF stereo 3.5 mini-phone jack".

Then on page 51, it says the "audio in port is also a S/PDIF stereo 3.5 mini-phone jack" and that "You can use a Toslink cable and a Toslink jack-to-miniplug adapter" to connect a DAT.

That does not sound like optical to me.

At least it is digital........but that also seems strange to have analog headphone jack doubling as a S/PDIF digital port.

Weird.

[cuttime]

Yes it is optical, as I have the same jack on my Powerbook, and when I boot up in the dark I can see a brief flash of laser light coming from the jack. Never used the optical though , only standard headphones on it.

[Resonant Alien]

Yes it is optical, as I have the same jack on my Powerbook, and when I boot up in the dark I can see a brief flash of laser light coming from the jack. Never used the optical though , only standard headphones on it.

What kind of cable do you use? Optical wouldn't gp through a 3.5 mini phono will it?

[Frodo]

Yes it is optical, as I have the same jack on my Powerbook, and when I boot up in the dark I can see a brief flash of laser light coming from the jack. Never used the optical though , only standard headphones on it.

No doubt it's optical, but is it really S/PDIF? Or perhaps a better question would be whether it's S/PDIF (or the end of S/PDIF) as we know it?

Optical and S/PDIF have always been two different types of digital connections.

However, I can actually understand how an optical connection and a mini headphone jack can be double up on one port-- it's really clever-- different circuitry that doesn't interfere with each other.

One other thing that comes to mind is that the PDF *may* contain misinfo which only Apple could confirm.

[kelldammit]

Yes it is optical, as I have the same jack on my Powerbook, and when I boot up in the dark I can see a brief flash of laser light coming from the jack. Never used the optical though , only standard headphones on it.

What kind of cable do you use? Optical wouldn't gp through a 3.5 mini phono will it?

it's the same kind of 1/8" jack that's on the airport express. i bought a cable kit from apple that had a 1/8" optical to toslink-style optical cable, enabling you to send audio from your airport express to your stereo's optical digital audio in.

kell

[cuttime]

Like Kell said: 1/8th inch to TOSlink adapter.

[eixb]

Optical and S/PDIF have always been two different types of digital connections.

optical and coax/rca connections are both used to carry the S/PDIF (consumer) format of digital audio. S/PDIF does not indicate a coax connection in and of itself, nor does TOSlink indicate the optical data is not of S/PDIF format.

S/PDIF is a consumer level version of the professional AES/EBU format, using cheaper & more common cabling and parts. functionally almost the same, although the technical underlying aspects (bit order primarily) are different.

see this for more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF

you can find the same 1/8" optical jack that apple used on the mini on many portable cd players sold by sony and panasonic, among other manufacturers. it's not proprietary whatsoever, and cables to convert the 1/8" optical jack to a regular TOSlink cable are widely available.

[Frodo]

Optical and S/PDIF have always been two different types of digital connections.

optical and coax/rca connections are both used to carry the S/PDIF (consumer) format of digital audio. S/PDIF does not indicate a coax connection in and of itself, nor does TOSlink indicate the optical data is not of S/PDIF format.

S/PDIF is a consumer level version of the professional AES/EBU format, using cheaper & more common cabling and parts. functionally almost the same, although the technical underlying aspects (bit order primarily) are different.

see this for more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF

you can find the same 1/8" optical jack that apple used on the mini on many portable cd players sold by sony and panasonic, among other manufacturers. it's not proprietary whatsoever, and cables to convert the 1/8" optical jack to a regular TOSlink cable are widely available.

Understood-- but perhaps in the light of the combined I/O on the Mini, perhaps I should have distinguished between connections and connectors. My point intended (but failed) to clarify that the connectors for TOSLink and RCA-type have been quite apart in the past. Combining these two connectors into one port is more of an Apple innovation and not an industry standard, although that is changing.

Over time, SPDIF has (by awkward default) been used as a term to imply RCA connectors. The inaccuracy has become rather part of the culture of misnomers, but largely "understood". When people want to speficy "optical" they use the term as the exception to make the distinction.

This is why perhaps the Apple documenation has appeared to be slightly misleading, even where it was accurate.

Kleenex, for example, has be used quite freely to refer to tissues regardless of whether that tissue is a Scottie, a Puffs, or some other brand. Xerox has likewise become a synonym for photycopying, whether the machine used for the purpose was made by Kyocera, Canon, HP or some other company.

[eixb]

Understood-- but perhaps in the light of the combined I/O on the Mini, perhaps I should have distinguished between connections and connectors. My point intended (but failed) to clarify that the connectors for TOSLink and RCA-type have been quite apart in the past. Combining these two connectors into one port is more of an Apple innovation and not an industry standard, although that is changing.

Over time, SPDIF has (by awkward default) been used as a term to imply RCA connectors. The inaccuracy has become rather part of the culture of misnomers, but largely "understood". When people want to speficy "optical" they use the term as the exception to make the distinction.

This is why perhaps the Apple documenation has appeared to be slightly misleading, even where it was accurate.

Kleenex, for example, has be used quite freely to refer to tissues regardless of whether that tissue is a Scottie, a Puffs, or some other brand. Xerox has likewise become a synonym for photycopying, whether the machine used for the purpose was made by Kyocera, Canon, HP or some other company.

i do agree, and i often call the coax jack "S/PDIF jack" as well. but since this is a forum, and it's obvious someone here is trying to glean an explanation of why apple's specs might be misleading among other things, i think it's important to remind people of this fact. especially when they read articles & specs - such as apple's - to make a purchase decision, which is becoming more and more common in the days of internet shopping.

if someone sees mention that a S/PDIF jack is available, buys the product, and then find out the coax jack they expected to find and use on their shiny new machine is absent...they won't be happy.

i realize most people on this board will know the similarities, difference and givens in the use of S/PDIF terms. my quote of your post is not done to correct you, but rather so another reader will be clear on what they may have potentially misunderstood about your statement.

[Frodo]

eixb-- we love clarity!!

I realized that I wasn't as clear as I should have been and wanted to tidy up my own assertions. You are correct, and we're both after the same understanding. It was your keen post that drew attention to the fact that such a distinction needed to be made, so thanks for that.

[Saintmatthew]

Yeah, sp/dif can use any number or cables/connectors. My S5000's sp/dif was 1/4. Puzzled I looked all over hell and radioshack for the right sp/dif cable to connect it to the rca style on my 828mkii. In the end, a regular 1/4 to rca adpater plug worked.

[voledenuit]

So will there be a way to get digital data from my Tascam DAT recorder to my Mac Pro without buying some kind of extra interface (card or Firewire)?

The deck has RCA-type coax and AES 3-pin I/O, but nothing optical that I know of.

It's maxing out my resources to get all the extras, memory, software upgrades, and such, far beyond the cost of the Mac Pro itself. Anything I don't have to replace or add will be a help.

[stephentayler]

These kind of combo mini/optical connectors have been around for years on Sony Minidisc and CD Walkman devices. The adaptor cables always cost a fortune.

Stephen