Apple Quality Control?
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- James Steele
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Apple Quality Control?
Hey everyone... I just got a call from a soliciter on behalf of Apple Computer calling to tell me that my iBook G4's warranty had run out and trying to sell me AppleCare. Now I know a lot of you have said this is important. I know... I had an early iBook G3 with the notorious video problems that plagued these early iBooks. So I informed them that I had been throught that debacle as well as my recent discovery that my refubed dual G5 shipped to me with a broken Airport antenna connector. And in the "futile gesture department" I then said I wasn't buying AppleCare because I don't think I should *have* to and that Apple ought to make better machines and hung up.
Seriously... the designs are excellent usually, but what's up with quality control? Why are we saying "Oh you bought a notebook... YOU'D BETTER GET APPLE CARE!" Why do we have to deal with that situation? I guess it's because Apple has no competition in the hardware any more... last time they had any (aka Power Computing) they were getting their butts handed to them. Again, don't get me wrong... Apple makes gorgeous, innovating designs, but somewhere in the manufacturing it seems to me they must be having problems.
I bought two Dell laptops for business a while back... they're both purring along wonderfully. If I had to bet money as to which is going to give out first, my iBook or my Dell 600m, sadly I'm going to bet on my iBook giving up the ghost first.
I'm not trying to be down on Apple Computer, but we shouldn't have to be purchasing Apple Care to be certain we'll get two years use from a notebook, etc.
Seriously... the designs are excellent usually, but what's up with quality control? Why are we saying "Oh you bought a notebook... YOU'D BETTER GET APPLE CARE!" Why do we have to deal with that situation? I guess it's because Apple has no competition in the hardware any more... last time they had any (aka Power Computing) they were getting their butts handed to them. Again, don't get me wrong... Apple makes gorgeous, innovating designs, but somewhere in the manufacturing it seems to me they must be having problems.
I bought two Dell laptops for business a while back... they're both purring along wonderfully. If I had to bet money as to which is going to give out first, my iBook or my Dell 600m, sadly I'm going to bet on my iBook giving up the ghost first.
I'm not trying to be down on Apple Computer, but we shouldn't have to be purchasing Apple Care to be certain we'll get two years use from a notebook, etc.
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- mikebeckmotu
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I agree.
Plus, I've thought about all the electronics I've bought, and I remember making a decision years ago that it's like insurance - in other words, a risk. So I quit buying add-on warranties, and I've saved more than I've spent on service.
That has nothing to do with quality control - and I've wondered if the gaining popularity of Apple hardware has reduced QC in favor of getting more product on the shelves.
My usual method is that when I get new electronic hardware, I try to use it as much as possible in the first month I own it, since that seems to be the period that will produce a failure, if it's going to happen, and it will be covered under standard warranty.
I like buying from dealers, since they often have some clout with the manufacturer if there is an issue. I once bought a Umax scanner many years ago - one of their better ones, when they cost about $2500. It shipped with broken ports. I sent it back to the dealer. The next one arrived with a broken lid. Again, sent back. The third one seemed okay. By this time, months had passed (original warranty expired). Then, after a couple weeks, I was getting artifacts in my scans. Umax didn't want to fix it, since it was out of warranty, but I gently pressured the dealer, who went to bat for me, and the fourth scanner was a charm.
I guess I got long-winded and off-topic, didn't I?
Sorry, James. And I hope you are able to get past your recent Apple troubles.
Plus, I've thought about all the electronics I've bought, and I remember making a decision years ago that it's like insurance - in other words, a risk. So I quit buying add-on warranties, and I've saved more than I've spent on service.
That has nothing to do with quality control - and I've wondered if the gaining popularity of Apple hardware has reduced QC in favor of getting more product on the shelves.
My usual method is that when I get new electronic hardware, I try to use it as much as possible in the first month I own it, since that seems to be the period that will produce a failure, if it's going to happen, and it will be covered under standard warranty.
I like buying from dealers, since they often have some clout with the manufacturer if there is an issue. I once bought a Umax scanner many years ago - one of their better ones, when they cost about $2500. It shipped with broken ports. I sent it back to the dealer. The next one arrived with a broken lid. Again, sent back. The third one seemed okay. By this time, months had passed (original warranty expired). Then, after a couple weeks, I was getting artifacts in my scans. Umax didn't want to fix it, since it was out of warranty, but I gently pressured the dealer, who went to bat for me, and the fourth scanner was a charm.
I guess I got long-winded and off-topic, didn't I?
Sorry, James. And I hope you are able to get past your recent Apple troubles.
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- sdemott
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I've been using PowerBooks since the 180c and have never purchased AppleCare (and yes, the 180c still works). I think the (incorrect) assumption is that PowerBooks are fragile. They are, in fact, some of the most well built laptops in production.
My day job, until very recently, was IT in a marketing/ad agency where we had 300+ Macs and maybe about 50 PCs (mostly Dells). We had more issues with the 30 or so Dell laptops than the 200 or so PowerBooks...so you do the math. And not to make you feel worse, but of the 6 Dell 600ms, all 6 had (litterally) fallen apart within 2 years of day to day use - where the PowerBooks faired much better.
I will say there are issues with early adoption among the new Mac models - but that is true of all cutting edge companies. I always wait until they release the 2nd or 3rd revision of anything before I purchase. We have a goos 60-70 MacBook Pros in house now and they are generally very reliable except for about 10 which are having the Airport Card = kernel panic issue...and Apple is replacing them all.
If you want the same build quality in a PC - the Lenovo T60s are the only real options. Dells are simply cheap crap built to hit a price point without regard for quality & there support is horrid. They send a part, a screwdriver and a single page of assembly instructions and call that customer support.
As far as your experience with the refurb unit - all I can say is that I have never known anyone to have good luck with refurbished computer. They were sent back for a reason...and that usually means you are buying someone else's headache. I would never recommend it to anyone. I would, however, recommend buying a model at the end of it's lifecycle. They price goes down and you have a system that has gone through several revisions of fixes.
My day job, until very recently, was IT in a marketing/ad agency where we had 300+ Macs and maybe about 50 PCs (mostly Dells). We had more issues with the 30 or so Dell laptops than the 200 or so PowerBooks...so you do the math. And not to make you feel worse, but of the 6 Dell 600ms, all 6 had (litterally) fallen apart within 2 years of day to day use - where the PowerBooks faired much better.
I will say there are issues with early adoption among the new Mac models - but that is true of all cutting edge companies. I always wait until they release the 2nd or 3rd revision of anything before I purchase. We have a goos 60-70 MacBook Pros in house now and they are generally very reliable except for about 10 which are having the Airport Card = kernel panic issue...and Apple is replacing them all.
If you want the same build quality in a PC - the Lenovo T60s are the only real options. Dells are simply cheap crap built to hit a price point without regard for quality & there support is horrid. They send a part, a screwdriver and a single page of assembly instructions and call that customer support.
As far as your experience with the refurb unit - all I can say is that I have never known anyone to have good luck with refurbished computer. They were sent back for a reason...and that usually means you are buying someone else's headache. I would never recommend it to anyone. I would, however, recommend buying a model at the end of it's lifecycle. They price goes down and you have a system that has gone through several revisions of fixes.
-Steve
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Not all who wander are lost.
- mhschmieder
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I learned how bad Apple Quality Control is when I upgraded my user memory last month for my G4 iMac, and the dock was so flimsy that it broke off even with minimal pressure (I had to use superglue to fix it). I have NEVER encountered such sloppy design in ANY other electronic gear!
I would rather buy an AMD-based computer that also runs OS X, than an Apple computer that also runs Windows (especially one based on an Intel chip). It's a shame the worst technology usually wins.
I'm in the minority in thinking that Apple is a mediocre hardware developer but a greatb software developer. Most people feel the opposite.
I would rather buy an AMD-based computer that also runs OS X, than an Apple computer that also runs Windows (especially one based on an Intel chip). It's a shame the worst technology usually wins.
I'm in the minority in thinking that Apple is a mediocre hardware developer but a greatb software developer. Most people feel the opposite.
Yeah, I shouldn't buy APP(AppleCare Protection Plan) but I bought it last week...
BUT, actually I'm having problem with it, because my Mac already passed regular 1 year warranty.
BUT! actually I bought new Mac 1 week ago! (I bought APP at same time with new Mac).
Hahaha... I just could laugh!
I bought APP but I couldn't apply it.
Fortunately, I don't have any hardware problem of my Macs.
But this new machine is a bit expensive machine for me.
So, I just wanted to add a bit long warranty time.
Next day, I asked to Apple and I faxed my proof of purchase to them.
It's still say my Mac purchesed last year on their Support website.
(You can check when you purchesed your mac at their support website.)
I'm a bit disappontment about it, but I have to ask them after 10 days IF my purchased date didn't change on the website.
I pray this mac will not get any problem before effecting the APP....
pray, pray, pray....
BUT, actually I'm having problem with it, because my Mac already passed regular 1 year warranty.
BUT! actually I bought new Mac 1 week ago! (I bought APP at same time with new Mac).
Hahaha... I just could laugh!
I bought APP but I couldn't apply it.
Fortunately, I don't have any hardware problem of my Macs.
But this new machine is a bit expensive machine for me.
So, I just wanted to add a bit long warranty time.
Next day, I asked to Apple and I faxed my proof of purchase to them.
It's still say my Mac purchesed last year on their Support website.
(You can check when you purchesed your mac at their support website.)
I'm a bit disappontment about it, but I have to ask them after 10 days IF my purchased date didn't change on the website.
I pray this mac will not get any problem before effecting the APP....
pray, pray, pray....
I've seen Apple Care and quality decline in general over the years. Out of 11 Macs, only two had to be sent out for repair, and both of them were in the G series-- G3 PB (Lombard, bronze keyboard) and late 2005 iMac G5. My G4 867 single's graphics card died, but I swapped that out myself. My workhorse G5 2.5 Dual is now starting to do funny things with the graphics card-- easy @home fix, but still-- and I'm starting to have questions about the mother board after only a year.
Reliable-- that has been the operative word since day 1, and while I still love Apple I too am starting to question reliability. Looking forward to the next new wave of computers just doesn't bring the hope it once did.
James-- I'm shocked. Apple's policy has always been not to sell extended warranties after 12 months. For what you had to go through, it's clear that they saw your point and tried, albeit a day late and a dollar short. I'm glad you "were honest" with them. They need to know that every decision they make for good or ill does not result in the consumer shelling out MORE money for what he is already entitled. Bravo, dude.
Reliable-- that has been the operative word since day 1, and while I still love Apple I too am starting to question reliability. Looking forward to the next new wave of computers just doesn't bring the hope it once did.
James-- I'm shocked. Apple's policy has always been not to sell extended warranties after 12 months. For what you had to go through, it's clear that they saw your point and tried, albeit a day late and a dollar short. I'm glad you "were honest" with them. They need to know that every decision they make for good or ill does not result in the consumer shelling out MORE money for what he is already entitled. Bravo, dude.
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Well, all I can add is that I have an original Mac Plus, Quadra 840av, and a Power Mac 8600/300 that all still work perfectly. Those computers were built with a cost-is-no-object phioshophy and it shows. My MDD G4 on the other hand is pretty to look at but has had heat issues from day one.
It seems like Apple decided to get into the cost-cutting game in earnest somewhere after either Power Computing was killed or the iMacs came out. Someone at Apple must have realized while iMacs were selling in record numbers that pretty computers could easily outsell simply great computers by a factor of ten. (Although I personally still think the 840av is the sexiest computer Apple ever made.)
Wayne
It seems like Apple decided to get into the cost-cutting game in earnest somewhere after either Power Computing was killed or the iMacs came out. Someone at Apple must have realized while iMacs were selling in record numbers that pretty computers could easily outsell simply great computers by a factor of ten. (Although I personally still think the 840av is the sexiest computer Apple ever made.)
Wayne
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I had a 400MHz iMac DV that had the motherboard crap out two weeks after I bought it. My Dual 1GHz G4 Quicksilver is still running fine after daily use for almost five years though. Sometime around the 10.3 update the fans started to kick in all the time, but thats the only problem I've had with it.
I've had two first revision Apple laptops and have had no problems. My 12" powerbook is about 4 years old and never had a problem(other than being slow). My Macbook Pro isn't that old, but I haven't had any problems yet. It does get pretty warm, but it's not quite as bad since the latest firmware updates. I know someone who has the last revision of the 15" Powerbooks and has had many problems with it.
I've had two first revision Apple laptops and have had no problems. My 12" powerbook is about 4 years old and never had a problem(other than being slow). My Macbook Pro isn't that old, but I haven't had any problems yet. It does get pretty warm, but it's not quite as bad since the latest firmware updates. I know someone who has the last revision of the 15" Powerbooks and has had many problems with it.
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I've had a Powerbook G4 and a dual 2.0 G5 and in 3 years only ever had a problem with the Superdrive in the PB. I ALWAYS buy the Apple Care. Plain and simple, when you shell out a thousand or more dollars for anything you should also purchase an extended warranty for it. I used to work at a Dell Direct Store setting people up with systems, and I would tell them that they might as well be throwing their money away if they didn't get the warranty. We are all able to purchase these computers because of the manufacturing methods on hand and must deal with the consequences of that.
Especially in laptops, the parts go bad much faster than they do in desktops. They're just not usually able to last as long. When I think about everything that's going on inside that machine I wonder how they make it last the way they do.
In closing, I know everyone is going to have hard times with computers, it's just the nature of using them to work. But I think as Mac owners we can be universally pleased that we don't have to deal with this:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32550
Especially in laptops, the parts go bad much faster than they do in desktops. They're just not usually able to last as long. When I think about everything that's going on inside that machine I wonder how they make it last the way they do.
In closing, I know everyone is going to have hard times with computers, it's just the nature of using them to work. But I think as Mac owners we can be universally pleased that we don't have to deal with this:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32550
LOL!! Easy to console when your user name is "steadied his rifle"!!! ROFL!!steadiedhisrifle wrote:... I know everyone is going to have hard times with computers, it's just the nature of using them to work. But I think as Mac owners we can be universally pleased that we don't have to deal with this:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32550
I'm only a Hobbit, but I'm ready to kick some eye-level tail when it comes to promises made (and paid for) and broken!!
6,1 MacPro, 96GB RAM, macOS Monterey 12.7, macOS 10.14, DP9.52
As a rule, I don't buy service policies either, but when it comes to Mac hardware, I buy them. Apple is notorious for selling bad hardware, in my research. As was pointed out, your average appliance will fail in the initial 30-day warranty period if it's got bad components. But, not so with Apple products, especially notebook computers. Apparently, the opening, closing, heat up and cool down take their toll over the long run.
Service policies are like betting against yourself. You only win if you lose. Consumer Reports recommends against buying Service Policies in general. But, since getting two bad laptops from Apple... one after the regular warranty expired... I now see the advantage.
Service policies are like betting against yourself. You only win if you lose. Consumer Reports recommends against buying Service Policies in general. But, since getting two bad laptops from Apple... one after the regular warranty expired... I now see the advantage.
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I'd never see the value in not buying one. You protect your entire investment for about 10% of the cost. Sometimes you have to play it safe, especially with pricey electronics.
I disagree that they're "notorious" for selling bad hardware. I've worked with well over 100 macs in my life (my own, those of friends, the ones in the labs at my school, and various professional studios), and have only had a serious hardware issue on 1 of them. When I rank that per capita against the number of other companies' computers I've worked with that have totally crapped out, I'm glad I own a mac.
I disagree that they're "notorious" for selling bad hardware. I've worked with well over 100 macs in my life (my own, those of friends, the ones in the labs at my school, and various professional studios), and have only had a serious hardware issue on 1 of them. When I rank that per capita against the number of other companies' computers I've worked with that have totally crapped out, I'm glad I own a mac.
- James Steele
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Well... I didn't buy Apple Care in my futile gesture that it shouldn't be necessary. I think it's a sad commentary on Apple product that the prevailing wisdom is you simply must buy AppleCare when you buy a Mac laptop. If this is true, then I'd like to see some magazines start adding AppleCare into the purchase price of the computer when comparing them with other computers.
FWIW, all I was saying when I started this thread is that this shouldn't be. How does Apple appear when we all say to each other "better buy Apple care!" Frankly, if I were going to buy a particular brand of TV, and everyone said to me "If you buy that brand, you'd better buy the extended warranty," I think I'd revise my purchase plans and buy a different brand. Of course, the analogy breaks down because Apple has no competition. Maybe they ought to just raise the price by 1/2 the cost of AppleCare and make them better?
FWIW, all I was saying when I started this thread is that this shouldn't be. How does Apple appear when we all say to each other "better buy Apple care!" Frankly, if I were going to buy a particular brand of TV, and everyone said to me "If you buy that brand, you'd better buy the extended warranty," I think I'd revise my purchase plans and buy a different brand. Of course, the analogy breaks down because Apple has no competition. Maybe they ought to just raise the price by 1/2 the cost of AppleCare and make them better?
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From my experience at least, I wouldn't be caught dead with ANY computer without an extended warranty. Apple, Dell, no matter which I'm using, I pick it up. I think it's important to have it on a computer, or any large electronics purchase, no matter what. Like you said though it'd be nice if we didn't have to deal with that.
I will never purchase an extended warranty on general principle. IMHO a well designed piece of electronic gear that doesn't suffer an individual component failure (which usually occur in the first few months of operation) should last for years and years with reasonable care. Any system that lasts through the initial "burn-in" phase but suffers failure after only a year or two generally indicates poor design.
Wayne
Wayne
DP 5.13, Reason 5, Logic 9, Melodyne 3, Live 7, Cubase 4.5, OS 10.5.8 on main desktop, 10.6.3 on laptop. Old analog gear, synths and guitars and heat-belching transformers and tubes.