Please deposit any comments on DP5 soft synths here...

[dtobocman]

Usable? Interesting? Promising? Filler? Total Shite? General quality... sound... inspirational level?

Any comments welcome!
Comments on provided presets sought as well...

Thanks.

[chrispick]

My quick, thrown-together overview.

All the DP VIs sound pretty good. All are kind of lite apps, meaning they have limited programmability. That is, none are on-par substitutes for full-fledged third-party VIs nor are they built to be, so don't expect results on that level. All are pretty CPU-efficient. All have nicely-designed, uncomplicated UIs.

Modulo: Kind of an MX4 lite. A subtractive, dual-oscillator style synth. Good for lead lines. I like it.

BassLine: Built for simple square and sawtooth bass stuff. Sounds okay, but is limited in the tweakability department. Definitely a one-trick pony that knows a very simple trick. I'm indifferent to it.

PolySynth: A lot like an old Juno. Very early-80s vibe. Pretty cool as that sort of thing goes. I like it.

Nanosampler: Really basic sample player. Eh, it's free. Having M5, I'll probably never use it.

Model 12: Drum sound sampler with a great UI, I think. Ships with a lot of novel percussive sounds. Could be great for dance, electronica or other modern tech-pop. I like it.

Proton: An FM synth that doesn't really make FM programming much easier. FM synths excel at those bell-like, sparkly patchs -- and I found that hard to create in Proton. Anyway, it's about more 80s kinds of sound. Not too keen on it, but others might put it to good use.

In all, I'd say they're cool additions, at least as supplementary VIs.

[matwell]

At the risk of getting flamed, I'll throw my two cents in here.

Honestly, I wish MOTU had used their time and resources for tweaking, improving and repairing DP, rather than adding VI's. Especially if these VI's are the result. I would have much rather had bugs fixed, plus many other features added that we have been requesting for what seems like years now. (improved Strip Silence; Broadcast WAV; MIDI on Instrument Tracks; Region/Block editing in the SE, etc. etc.)

All of the VI's are simply... decent. Nothing amazing, although I'm sure they will deliver better results when we tweak our own sounds. The presets are pretty "meh" to me. You know, my first impression after playing through all the VI's was "wow, now we have most of the sounds and synthesis techniques of the mid-80's in virtual form". The nanosampler even looks like an Akai S900! They *do* have some cool possibilities. It just seems we're going to have to dig a lot more to uncover them, than with other MOTU and 3rd-party VI's.

I guess that MOTU was trying to compete with other sequencers (who shall go unnamed ) that have bundled VI's. Maybe for people who don't own any other VI's, then the new DP 5 VI's are a good start.

For everyone else, I wouldn't expect too much when you try them.

[Shooshie]

Since I pretty much agree with chrispick about these, let me use his opinions as starting points, and just add to what he says where I have something to add. Generally, I think the programmability of these modules grows on you. That is, the longer I stayed with them, the more I got out of them, which is usually the case, of course. I'm more impressed with them, I think, than others seem to be, but that's probably due to differences in our synth programming backgrounds.

Modulo: Kind of an MX4 lite. A subtractive, dual-oscillator style synth. Good for lead lines. I like it.

Modulo can use a lot of CPU, but it depends on the patch and how it's programmed. If you find yourself hitting the red, try a different patch. It's a polyphonic synth, and good for pads, chords, etc., as well as leads. I came up with a couple of the coolest synth basses I've ever had, with very little tweaking, and in general, I find Modulo to be the quickest to get good mileage out of.

BassLine: Built for simple square and sawtooth bass stuff. Sounds okay, but is limited in the tweakability department. Definitely a one-trick pony that knows a very simple trick. I'm indifferent to it.

Here is where I depart from chrispick. I found bassline to be very interesting after spending a little time with it. It is very analogue-style in its programming, so the possibilities are nearly infinite. As you change one knob, that changes the effects of the others to some degree. The legato button changes the attack so that you either carry the same envelop through the entire phrase, or start a new envelope with each attack, depending on your touch. You can end up with crisp, independent notes, or analogue portamenti between notes ranging from immediate to "lose all concept of notes." If by "one-trick" one means "it does basses," then yes, it's a one-trick pony. But I find it very useful as a bass generator. You can blend your sound anywhere between sawtooth and square, add overdrive, etc. It's really not a bad little synth. It just packs a lot into a few parameters.

PolySynth: A lot like an old Juno. Very early-80s vibe. Pretty cool as that sort of thing goes. I like it.

I like it, too. Extremely analog. Controls are very sensitive, and much of what I said about Bassline applies to this, as well. I've saved a number of patches already. Good for any kind of application you'd use for analog synths. Trying to remember the CPU hit, but I can't. Seems like I cut back on my instances of Polysynth after seeing a lot of spiking into the red.

Nanosampler: Really basic sample player. Eh, it's free. Having M5, I'll probably never use it.

I've played with this one the least. Not much to add here.

Model 12: Drum sound sampler with a great UI, I think. Ships with a lot of novel percussive sounds. Could be great for dance, electronica or other modern tech-pop. I like it.

This is both the most intriguing and the most intimidating of the units, for me. Not being a drummer, I feel really handicapped when using this. I think that if I knew exactly which drums/cymbals/brushes/kicks/snares, etc. I was looking for to make a particular sound for a particular set, this might be fast and easy to use. The interface is simplicity overlaying deep complexity. Choose a set, modify any aspect of that set, reprogram the sounds, save your new set. That is it, in a nutshell, but once you open a menu, and see six menus deep or so (actually, it's probably fewer, but it sure seemed like a lot), finding one particular little patch is a daunting exercise. But if you are a drummer, you'll know just where to look, so winding through those menus will not be a problem. After a bit of struggle, I was able to find the elements I needed to approximate a very simple Nashville Sound style drumset which I needed for a particular song. But when dealing with drums, I run scared. I'm not a drummer, and feel totally out of my element with them, unless it's just the Indian style drums of my ancestors. Gene Krupa I'm not.

Proton: An FM synth that doesn't really make FM programming much easier. FM synths excel at those bell-like, sparkly patchs -- and I found that hard to create in Proton. Anyway, it's about more 80s kinds of sound. Not too keen on it, but others might put it to good use.

Finding what you want in Proton is a matter of patience and subtlety. You CAN get quite a range out of it, but again, every parameter affects all the others, so you really have to think it through before you start twiddling. The wave/harmonic knob, for instance, may frustrate you until you start modifying the other parameters. And when you find the cause/effects that you're seeking, it's still a matter of subtlety to get them right, because the slightest change over here will make what you want impossible to get over there. So, I find it very interesting, very programmable, but very slow to arrive at the target. It's sort of like the old algorithms of Yamaha--it's almost impossible to pre-imagine the effects of all of them, so you end up just tapping through them all until you get an idea of what they will do to each patch you program. Here, you dispense with the algorithms, but make up for it with the sublety of each change.

If I have more practice with these, I can be more specific about those changes, about the keys to getting what you want. But I've only just begun to crack the code, so to speak, on each one of them. So far, I've made my most progress with Bassline and Modulo, with Proton and Polysynth close behind. I'm enjoying them immensely, though, because they each seem to get right to the meat of the matter much more quickly than any synth I've ever owned. Granted, I have spent most of my synth-life with Yamaha and Kurzweil instruments, so I may have missed the greatest things since Moog, but many sounds that I've chased elusively all that time simply jumped out at me on these units, so I'm quite pleased. I think most synth people will find something here to be happy about.

Shooshie

[Jaime Lunn]

I am in agreement with Matwell, can take or leave them and undoubtedly will use them when I need x y or z. I have a lot of NI stuff including Reaktor and Battery 2. I feel the drum machine comes with very poor sounds and patches and I dont feel the need to spend time programming it as the CPU hit on my ageing machine is massive with all these new VI's like the simplicity of the new nano sampler and I am using it in a project right now...based on a need.

I see a definite improvement in the appearence of DP5 and the input monitoring modes are a bloody god send. It is a shame that software never achieves what it is intended to do on all fronts but simply moves on to having more features and new/different bugs.

That said this latest version is an improvement but I look forward to the universal edition for my new machines.

[misentropic]

Since MOTU has decided *not* to provide any audio samples of the softsynths perhaps we can post a few to serve as fodder for this discussion.

I'm sure most people on here have someplace to post an audio sample, but I'd be willing to make a simple page of some if people want to email them to me: dp5*at*misentropic.com

This email will self-destruct in 7 days.....

[Shooshie]

Since MOTU has decided *not* to provide any audio samples of the softsynths perhaps we can post a few to serve as fodder for this discussion.

I'm sure most people on here have someplace to post an audio sample, but I'd be willing to make a simple page of some if people want to email them to me: dp5*at*misentropic.com

I may be able to post something in a few days. Not something original, though. I'll just take an old sequence I've worked on, and add synths, a-la-Wendy Carlos. How would that be?


Shooshie

[bsantoro]

Has anyone experienced a delay in triggering the DP5 synths from an external MIDI keyboard? I set DP5's buffer settings to 256 and it improves the latency; but some of the patches clip and gurgle with that low of buffer setting. Any suggestions?

Also, if someone comes up with a great patch, could a screen grab be posted in message showing all the settings of that particular synth? Along with an mp3 sample?

[blue]

Honestly, I wish MOTU had used their time and resources for tweaking, improving and repairing DP, rather than adding VI's.

My guess is that MOTU developed the VIs to compete with other sequencers for new blood. I know a few people who decided to go with Logic simply because of the bundled VIs. These were people who had nothing yet. No synths or samplers. To them, the idea of making noise right away, without buying any extra soundware, was quite appealing. Had DP offered Vis at that time, they most likely would have gone that route instead.

I see the frustration you would have as an advanced user, but anything that puts DP ahead of --or on par with-- the competition is good for all of us. More cash hopefully means better development and testing. Hopefully!

[dtobocman]

Thanks for filling this thread chock full of good info. What a nice surprise to return to after a hard day at the studio...

[Shooshie]

Has anyone experienced a delay in triggering the DP5 synths from an external MIDI keyboard? I set DP5's buffer settings to 256 and it improves the latency; but some of the patches clip and gurgle with that low of buffer setting. Any suggestions?

Also, if someone comes up with a great patch, could a screen grab be posted in message showing all the settings of that particular synth? Along with an mp3 sample?

There's a delay, but that's true with any softsynth, and I haven't noticed these being any worse than others. I've gotten accustomed to playing with a delay. It actually gets me on my toes to be more accurate, since by the time I hear it, it's too late to slide to another note. Recording this way isn't a problem, as DP compensates for the delay. Either that, or I've compensated for it. All I know is that it usually comes out pretty close to the beat for me.

I think someone did some screenshots of all the softsynths a week or two ago. I'm sorry I can't remember the title of the thread, maybe someone else does. But there were extensive pictures.

Shooshie

[carrythebanner]

Nanosampler: Really basic sample player. Eh, it's free. Having M5, I'll probably never use it.

I have MachFive as well, but I find myself using nano for stuff that I probably wouldn't bother doing in MachFive. For example, I grabbed one of the DP click sounds, looped it, filtered it, and modulated it, all in a minute or so, and achieved an interesting sound. While MachFive is deeper & more flexible, in this case doing the same thing in MachFive would take longer, use more screen real estate, etc..

Basically, to me, nano's immediacy is an asset. When I want to throw an idea in the wind & see if it works, I'll throw it nano; its simplicity allows me to see quickly whether it will fly or not.

[xluve]

My guess is that MOTU developed the VIs to compete with other sequencers for new blood. I know a few people who decided to go with Logic simply because of the bundled VIs. These were people who had nothing yet.

Bingo!!! I totally agree since I am a newcomer in DP and also a newbie in music on Mac, and people can't imagine how frustrating can be to work on a machine with absolutely no sound and no VI's. Since I work now on a Powerbook for draft projects I really need to have simple instruments with less quality and LESS cpu usage than a MX4 just to find the right direction.
I want the quality? I'll buy the VI i'll decide the best for my needs.
I need a quite simple and ugly piano just to fix an idea on the fly? All new DP5 VI's are very welcome. Simplyfied VI's are a VERY IMPORTANT resource if you are more involved in creation than in recording. The problem is now: how many CPU do I need for using them? I mean, i'm more interested in how low the CPU usage is when I use the simpliest patch. But ok, it's my personal need. If everytime I'm starting with a new project I open a session with Reaktor for sure I waste time and CPU..

Honestly, I wish MOTU had used their time and resources for tweaking, improving and repairing DP, rather than adding VI's.

I think (or I really hope!) MOTU is already working on a DP6 version with totally renewed interface, new design, contextual menus, new graphic, new tools... so the DP5 could be a version of transition and in wich fix more about the code and some new features.
I begin to feel comfortable with DP, but I see in every 'part' of the program different way to think, select, zoom, GUI (Track, Sequence, Wave editor). Ok, each part is probably growed up version by version and included step by step more and new features, but I think now it's the right time to redesign all the structure (GUI) in a new and much more coherent way.
It would be a huge step forward and a big appeal even for newcomers!

That's my opinion, I apologize if some expressions seems too strong or superficial, but it' also because of my limited italo-english..

YO!

[bone.china]

If MOTU are gonna do soft synths then they should at least get BT or some others like BT to program their synths! I'm kinda suspecting that our folks at MOTU merely ducked out of Harvard Sq., strolled down Mass. Ave., crossed the Charles, wandered on past Newbury St., successfully crossed Boylston St., slipped into 150 Mass. Ave. and tip-toed through the Berklee College of Music student lobby into the Music Synthesis Dept. and randomly chose 5 or six Music Synthesis majors to program DP5's new synths. That's just a guess. I'm not saying students can't program at Berklee, all I'm saying is that maybe the students chosen, if students were chosen, were not quite up to BT's level of godliness just yet.

I think the synths are pretty damn good, but they don't sound too inspiring with their current soundsets, that's for sure. Maybe MOTU's budget didn't allow for a bunch of BTs to come in and wreck shop on their soft synths, but in my humble opinion, MOTU should take the plunge because nice and good sounding synths sells loads of sequencers these days. And with DP5 at a price point still well below (less than half the price) of Logic Pro 7, and a more comprehensive and professional package than Reason, MOTU stands to make some BIG bucks if DP5's new toys are able to make pretty noises right out of the box.

Just my 2•.

[zedboy]

Why aren't they multitimbral? As a long time DP user, I find this oversight a little chintzy. For my money Pluggo beats them hands down, and it's only $200 for way more.