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Hello guys , im glad that i registered with this great forum it... DAW's are new to me (only 1.5 years orking with them). I have had pro tools le with digi002 from the start, at first i was like this is great, but as time passed by ,i was at a point that i got tired of all this digi hardware, i want to have my own hardware, not be forced to use the digi hardware.Dont get me worng, i found pro tools le the software very easy to use,but had limitation on the tracks and did not utilize the dual processor of my mac until pro tool le 7.0. so i did some searching on the net and i found dp5 to be the closest to pro tools to use, and as far as i see (since i got it yesterday,its not that hard to use,i still need time on it ). So now that i sold the Digi 002 (im glad, pre's were ok at best, the a/d conv. was nothing to talk about), so now im thinking of Apogee Ensemble (all in one unit that will kick the digi 002 ) from what i hear , the mic pre's are as good as the mini me (which is a big upgrade from the digi 002) and the a/d d/a are also great (apogee compared to digi on conversion, no match), and im thinking of using a couple of Behringer BCF2000's to use to control surface (do you guys know if they work good with dp5?), i feel this setup will get me 2x-3x better quality sound than the digi002, what do you guys think, anything better can work for me before i buy the ensemble and the bcf2000, thanks for your time guys and have a good one!
** ohh,one thing guys, i also read somewhere that dp5 can utilize the dual processing, but i have to manual set it up, is this true, i know i need to read the manual, but thanks alot!

oh ok guys, after doing some searching on this great forum, i now know that the apogee ensemble and the bcf2000 should work fine (i should have done the search first!!

But i still have 2 question
1) the utilizing of dual processors (g5) in dp5, is it done by it self, or i have to "turn that option on" via the menu of dp5?
2) I also read that dp5 can accept TDM plugins under DAE, i know TDM plugins are used for pro tools HD only (do i need HD hardware for them to work) and if no hardware is needed is the quality of the TDM the same as if it would be for pro tools HD and would it use more processing power per plugin let say more than the same RTAS version of the plugin,thanks again!

sammysam wrote:i feel this setup will get me 2x-3x better quality sound than the digi002!

Getting 2x - 3x better would be more like going from 8 bit 22khz sessions, using a radio shack mic with a short in it, to an LA studio with a perfectly tuned room, Neuman Mic and the best Pre-Amps and AD converters money could buy.

But seriously, I don't think you will hear that much of a difference. The 002's are pretty darn good.

I have since upgraded my 002r signal path to a Grace Pre-amp, Avalon Stereo Compressor and Apogee converter. I truly believe it has more detail, but not something you would really notice unless you were in a great room with amazing speakers.

Bottom line is that with consumer products, there is no possibility of improving your sound 2x to 3x. You gotta spend way more than that.

I use both DP and PT LE, but more and more am using LE, as PT has added some great features as of late.

hey thanks for the reply, i might have been s little out of line about 2-3x better, your correct, but what i was trying to say that the sound should, at least i think so....anyway thanks again,anyone can help out with the other questions i had,that would be great , thanks!

DP automatically takes advantage of multi-processors. (page 7 of getting started manual)

If you want to use TDM, you would have to own the Digi hardware.

DP can act as a front to a TDM system, but you need all of the bells and whistles as if you were running it with PT software.

thanks dubaifox, so you dont think an apogee a/d , d/a and preamp would have an that much of an edge over the digi 002 stock sound? to ne honest with you i got tired of the digi 002 sound, and from the research i did, i found that good pre's and a/d cam make a diffrence, and from what i gathered over the last month of reading on the net, that most people also feel that the digi 002 pre's and a/d are not very good and maybe ok at best, i give that the software of pro tools le was very easy for me to use, and i wish i can use other hardware on it. thanks again, what kind of music do you do dubaifox?from your screen name i gather that you might play oriental or mid. east. music?

sammysam wrote:thanks dubaifox, so you dont think an apogee a/d , d/a and preamp would have an that much of an edge over the digi 002 stock sound?

Really hard to say. Where are you recording? What type of Mic? What type of Music? What sample/bit rate?

There is a lot of marketing hype out there. The bottom line is that if you
A/B'd the two systems under identical circumstances and you noticed the difference and preferred the difference, then by all means. I just have learned to be very careful of other people telling me what I am (or should be) hearing.

Going to my Grace/Avalon/Apogee stage from the 002r was not as drastic as I thought it would be. Worth the extra $4,000? I think so. Would a client ever be able to tell the difference? Nope.

So it is complicated. I basically was responding to your "my sound will be 2x to 3x better" comment. (which you did say was an overstated) For everyone that has said the 002 sound is terrible, I have heard someone say it is great. Who do you believe? Hit records have been recorded on 001's and 002's.

I do all kinds of music. I am an American living in Dubai, and write music for films/TV in addition to teaching.

thanks for the input, im glad that i had the chance to talk to you, i=you made me think about what is needed and what is not, thanks again!
By chance , the reason i asked is becuase im also an american but i was born in syria, do you ever get the chance to listen to new ara-mid east music, what do you think about where they at in mixing and the overall sound. I know the last 10 years the sound has changed 100%, its more of a full tight mix (pop), and sometime i hear things that ill be amazed at, because it sound so good, have visited any studios in Dubai, i know they have top of the line studio's, what do they use, pro tools? thanks again

dubaifox wrote:

sammysam wrote:i feel this setup will get me 2x-3x better quality sound than the digi002!

Getting 2x - 3x better would be more like going from 8 bit 22khz sessions, using a radio shack mic with a short in it, to an LA studio with a perfectly tuned room, Neuman Mic and the best Pre-Amps and AD converters money could buy.

But seriously, I don't think you will hear that much of a difference. The 002's are pretty darn good.

I have since upgraded my 002r signal path to a Grace Pre-amp, Avalon Stereo Compressor and Apogee converter. I truly believe it has more detail, but not something you would really notice unless you were in a great room with amazing speakers.

Bottom line is that with consumer products, there is no possibility of improving your sound 2x to 3x. You gotta spend way more than that.

I use both DP and PT LE, but more and more am using LE, as PT has added some great features as of late.

I basically agree with the above post. I'll add that the biggest difference between home/project studios and pro setups is the experience of the people running them, not the gear so much. For example, I have an PTHD setup (am running both PT and DP on it). I also have cheaper stuff. I could do otherwise identical recordings through each, and the sound difference will not be that great. On the other hand, some other engineer could do the same, and depending on his/her experience, it either wouldn't be as good as what I did, or maybe be even better. In either case, the difference in engineering would be far greater that the difference between the gear. Better gear is no substitute for engineering chops. I think people place way too much emphasis on the gear. That's like a carpenter or plumber placing emphasis on their tools. Or an auto mechanic. Engineering is no different. The way to make 2x to 3x better sounding recordings is to become a better engineer.

Just a thought:

Maybe a Master Clock is your way to go? From what I read through the net, this seems to even out some harshness issues. And this might be a reason why film scores alsways seem to be a little more open sounding, since many if not most of the digital studios use Clocks in one way or the other.
I can not tell from first hand experience, but as soon as our studio is up and running, I will definitely try and slave my low end MBox to the clock of the RME fireface since it is said to produce a great clock and then do the comparison (with drums, I think).

pcm wrote: Better gear is no substitute for engineering chops. I think people place way too much emphasis on the gear. That's like a carpenter or plumber placing emphasis on their tools. Or an auto mechanic. Engineering is no different. The way to make 2x to 3x better sounding recordings is to become a better engineer.

Well said, pcm, and I totally agree. The differences we hear in the gear itself are usually so subtle that 5 professionals will have 5 opinions. It's never like "Whoaaaa! That SUCKS!" I can think of mistakes I made in my early digital recordings that almost make me want to refund my clients' money. (they loved it, so I'm not gonna!) Things like not manually compensating certain plugin delays--that's pretty major. There are so many places you can screw up or enhance the sound. So much to know.

S.