MOTUnation.com

Shooshie wrote:I just finished paying $99.00 for the Miroslav Philharmonik FULL VERSION! Since I started with this $15 no-brainer deal, that means I've actually paid $114 for it, but I guess I'll actually have two versions to work with, too. Not sure whether there is any advantage to that, but I do not feel taken in any way. It's a great buy.

Shooshie, here's a link (I hope) to the IK bb where I asked;
1. What are the instruments that are in the Full Version that aren't in the CE version? and
2. If I install the Full version, is there any benefit in keeping the CE on my drive?
http://tinyurl.com/3nos6we" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
the answers may be of interest to you but, in any event, *definitely* a great buy!

Once again, an awesome buy from IK! Before I graduated to the much costlier and much less CPU-friendly Symphobia for Kontakt 4, I used Philharmonik for a lot of my film work. Like all SampleTank VIs, you get a LOT of control, full mixing, inserts and sends, great built-in effects and it all takes a minimal hit on your RAM and CPU. You can actually mix live without having to pre-record any tracks or juggle things around with Bidule. Even with Symphobia, Voices Of The Apocalypse and True Strike 1, I still dig Philharmonik ... especially the choirs, the free Concert Grand, the pipe organ, etc. Not quite as "big" or hi-def as the more expensive stuff, but you could theoretically pull off a whole orchestral arrangement or even a film score with that one VI.

"great built-in effects"

Yes, this is often overlooked, but Miroslav for some reason has, to my ears at least, a much more cohesive sound than Kontakt-based libraries when engaging the built-in effects.

I in fact switch off all reverb in Kontakt, and usually other effects as well. I do not feel so compelled to do so in the IK-based products.

Well, we all know that the CSR reverb series is what is used in these IK products, so it's no surprise. And while some of those effects can smear the image a bit and muddy up the mid-lows, judicious use can be very professional. CSR was ahead of its time, and only just now is starting to get bettered in the native space.

To those clicking on the forum link above:

You will first be prompted to login to your IK account.

Then you will be taken to the main forum page.

But do not despair: simply return to Willie Myers' tiny URL link above and click again. This time you will be taken to the actual Miroslav discussion.

mhschmieder wrote:"great built-in effects"

Yes, this is often overlooked, but Miroslav for some reason has, to my ears at least, a much more cohesive sound than Kontakt-based libraries when engaging the built-in effects.

I in fact switch off all reverb in Kontakt, and usually other effects as well. I do not feel so compelled to do so in the IK-based products.

Well, we all know that the CSR reverb series is what is used in these IK products, so it's no surprise. And while some of those effects can smear the image a bit and muddy up the mid-lows, judicious use can be very professional. CSR was ahead of its time, and only just now is starting to get bettered in the native space.

I never use Kontakt's built-in effects! Before I started using Kontakt libraries for my film scoring stuff, I simply set up SampleTank, Sonik Synth 2 and Philharmonik with their built-in CSRs as sends, and switched off any other preset reverbs. Those workstations are so easy to use, it's really nothing to perform a whole mix, including inserts and panning, without having to route anything outside of the plug. Then, I'd turn off any other sampler or soft synth's reverb and send them to an instance of CSR (which, I agree, is still a great plug!). The whole mix gels nicely with low CPU hits (neither the IK workstations or CSR eat up a lot of CPU or RAM, even with tons of instruments running).

These days, I use Altiverb or Lexicon PCM, but I still have CSR on my machine and wind up using it often.

Boy... I go to Europe for a few weeks ... 7 pages.

Am I the only one who got both CE and Sampletank working?

Both are working here.

Working fine here too!

I am really liking some of the analog synth sounds in Supertank - nice little retro feel for those of us old enough to remember real Mini Moogs. Use sparingly but can't beat the cost

The piano is surprisingly good, too.

It's nice to see IKM products getting a little love from the 'nation. I'm a long time Sampletank user…..started with ST1, moved on to ST2, which was a revelation and caused me to part with all of my hardware instruments. Even though I own and use Kontakt 4 (w / additions to the factory sound set), I find myself using Sampletank 95% of the time. Here's the thing…… while the IKM libraries are not as detailed as some of the high end material from other manufacturers, they are, IMHO, very musical. And the Sampletank platform is easy to use, has a small CPU footprint, and is remarkably stable. In my system I run the ST2 XL factory library, Miroslav, Sonik Synth 2, and a bunch of the IK XT expansion libraries all in ST2 - everything in one place.

Terry

I have no issues with IKM instruments. Overall I like them just fine and they are useful and lately you can get them inexpensively. I am watching with some trepidation as IK is another one of those companies like Sonoma Wire Works that is falling all over itself to get in on the iPad/iPhone app "gold rush." I keep seeing if there's an update at the SWW for DrumCore and never hear much about it, but they're pushing their iOS apps like crazy. *Sigh*

I hear 'ya, James, and I feel the same sense of trepidation. There must be enough money to be made in IPhone and IPad apps to justify IKM and SWW's frantic push into IOS territory….when SWW bought the rights to Submersible Musics's product line, I figured that would lead to the eventual demise of Drumcore. But I think there's reason to be optimistic; on the Drumcore forum the company has asked for input from their customers regarding what they want to see in the next version of the software; and on their Facebook page, IKM has posted photos of instruments being sampled for the new Sampletank 3 library. Here's the link:

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=5 ... 7617160146

Honestly, part of my motivation in purchasing Kontakt 4 was based on not knowing what the continued viability of Sampletank was going to be - I've literally built Gb's of original programs in ST2, and if it goes south, I need someplace to move it all. It seems the consensus is that NI has won the sampler wars…..so, I've got K4 installed.

Terry

It may come as no surprise that iPhone and iPad apps are the biggest gold mine in the business right now. My son, a programmer, was hired away from the old-line programming that he did for Hewlett-Packard to work for a company that makes apps for the iOS. He just happened to have experience with it, and found that programmers who know this platform are so in demand and so hard to find that they are being paid top dollar. That will change as the market gets saturated, but that's where it's at for now. Personally I find it odd that music/audio companies are trying to do so much on these platforms, outside of remote controls and that sort of thing. But if there's a market, who am I to judge?

Shooshie

tbon wrote:I hear 'ya, James, and I feel the same sense of trepidation. There must be enough money to be made in IPhone and IPad apps to justify IKM and SWW's frantic push into IOS territory….when SWW bought the rights to Submersible Musics's product line, I figured that would lead to the eventual demise of Drumcore. But I think there's reason to be optimistic; on the Drumcore forum the company has asked for input from their customers regarding what they want to see in the next version of the software; and on their Facebook page, IKM has posted photos of instruments being sampled for the new Sampletank 3 library. Here's the link:

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=5 ... 7617160146

Honestly, part of my motivation in purchasing Kontakt 4 was based on not knowing what the continued viability of Sampletank was going to be - I've literally built Gb's of original programs in ST2, and if it goes south, I need someplace to move it all. It seems the consensus is that NI has won the sampler wars…..so, I've got K4 installed.

I love and own almost all of the SampleTank instruments, and I've got quite a few expansion sets for SampleTank. However ... all of my high-end sample collections are on Kontakt. There's really just no comparison. Unless SampleTank 3 has the ability to load and use keyswitches, velocity switches and extensive scripting, it's still going to be a niche instrument that's dependent on how good its included samples and various sample packs are, but it's still not going to have the ability to load up sets like Symphobia or Electri6ity and will have limited usability. Don't get me wrong, I find plenty of uses for SampleTank, Sonik Synth 2 and Philharmonik, but I think, at this point, there's a wide margin of difference between those and Kontakt that IK probably won't be able to bridge.

Armageddon wrote:I love and own almost all of the SampleTank instruments, and I've got quite a few expansion sets for SampleTank. However ... all of my high-end sample collections are on Kontakt. There's really just no comparison. Unless SampleTank 3 has the ability to load and use keyswitches, velocity switches and extensive scripting, it's still going to be a niche instrument that's dependent on how good its included samples and various sample packs are, but it's still not going to have the ability to load up sets like Symphobia or Electri6ity and will have limited usability. Don't get me wrong, I find plenty of uses for SampleTank, Sonik Synth 2 and Philharmonik, but I think, at this point, there's a wide margin of difference between those and Kontakt that IK probably won't be able to bridge.

Now that I have the full version of Miroslav installed, along with Sonik Synth, I can more ably assess the virtues of Sampletank and its spawn. I don't think I'll be proclaiming either as the best of anything, but I find both to be useful. The thing that's been missing from my collection has been a "grab-bag" of spare parts. I could consider GPO in that way, but it's really good enough to use on the front lines if I'm careful, but on the other hand it's limited only to mainstream orchestral instruments. The Jazz library has more variety, but is still quite limited. Not the kind of grab-bag I would want. MSI simply lacks too much. Nice instruments, but not enough control over their sound, attacks, etc, and the ranges of the instruments are nearly all truncated for no apparent reason. Maybe they saved a few megabytes by doing that. Who knows? But shaving off the top 10% of the range of so many instruments is inexcusable and renders MSI almost useless, even as a spare-parts bag.

I think Sonik Synth gives me some nice keyboards -- a Rhodes, Mellotron, Clavinet, and many others that do not appear in libraries as often as they should. I'm thankful to have those even if they may not (or may) be among the best out there. The Rhodes I've already used. It's ok. It's brighter than I remember them sounding, but you never actually hear a "Rhodes," but a "Rhodes through a Fender Amp," and so on. The sound of Sonik Synth's Rhodes is bright but useful as is. I can probably EQ it and get more out of it. Better a little extra brightness to cut than too dark, where adding volume to certain frequencies just doesn't quite do the job. In Sonik Synth I find a really useful box of spare parts - there are so many odd sounds and mainstream sounds. I can work with these when I imagine a sound that might fit somewhere.

Miroslav's usefulness I've already written about in this thread. It certainly could be better. I wish the ability to assign controllers could be global rather than part-by-part. But the fact that it responds to Breath Control at all, and in a fairly intelligent way, makes it instantly useful to me whether for mockups or final products. When the sound is "good enough," expression pushes it over the hill to make the performance great. You can definitely express in the Miroslav Philharmonik. I'm glad to have it.

Keep in mind that I have VSL, GPO, Garritan Jazz, and of course the amazing Wallander Instruments "WIVI" plugin. Plus I have the Thommasini/Lucato Stradivari Solo Violin and Gofriller Cello, which are amazing solo instruments (Garritan versions). Really and truly amazing. All the Garritan stuff runs in Kontakt 4 Player; I don't have his Aria engine yet. But the point is that I'm not hurting for good sounds. Always looking for useful ones, though. It's strange how your favorite sounds don't always go well in a certain piece of music.

If someone had a very low budget and wanted a wide variety of sounds for all kinds of music, they could do no better than to have caught these two (Miroslav and Sonik Synth) on sale. Careful MIDI performance will make these sound excellent in most situations. The two combined -- full versions of each -- came to only $150. Maybe they'll repeat this sale again.

Shooshie