lost dp4 manual

qo · Post by qo » Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:23 pm

surrealka wrote:With information piracy, no one has lost anything except the money they would have made had the person copying it chosen to buy it.

And, what do you think the result of this is? The result is that I have to pay additional $$ to MOTU when other people pirate DP because MOTU has to set a per-unit price based on sales volume to pay fixed ongoing costs of e.g. developer salaries, office space, warehousing, etc, and "the money they would have made" now doesn't figure into this calculation. Hence, the opportunity to lower the price is lost, or lessened. Since I am now paying more for DP, and for its upgrades, I have lost something, very directly.

sdfalk · Post by **sdfalk** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:39 pm

exactly

bitmaniac · Post by **bitmaniac** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:54 pm

not exactly, thats assuming that if people didn't pirate DP more people would buy it? that's simply not true.

sdfalk · Post by **sdfalk** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:08 pm

bitmaniac wrote:not exactly, thats assuming that if people didn't pirate DP more people would buy it? that's simply not true.

I'm sorry, but he said that where exactly?
(Mind you I am a bit sleepy)
So if fewer people stole it, more people wouldn't buy it..
That's pretty apparent.
There is (however) a potential for revenues that might never
be realized because of the theft.
So that makes it okay then?
Sounds like more (weak) rationalization for theft.

bitmaniac · Post by **bitmaniac** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:11 pm

sdfalk wrote:
bitmaniac wrote:not exactly, thats assuming that if people didn't pirate DP more people would buy it? that's simply not true.
I'm sorry, but he said that where exactly?
Sounds like more (weak) rationalization for theft.

the one guy argued that MOTU doesn't actually lose anything since its not theft of an actual piece of property such as a car. then the other guy said that now he has to pay more because that money MOTU 'would' have made is no longer factored into calculating their price for DP. which is using the same argument, just flipping it around.

sdfalk · Post by **sdfalk** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:14 pm

bitmaniac wrote:
sdfalk wrote:
bitmaniac wrote:not exactly, thats assuming that if people didn't pirate DP more people would buy it? that's simply not true.
I'm sorry, but he said that where exactly?
Sounds like more (weak) rationalization for theft.
the one guy argued that MOTU doesn't actually lose anything since its not theft of an actual piece of property such as a car. then the other guy said that now he has to pay more because that money MOTU 'would' have made is no longer factored into calculating their price for DP. which is using the same argument, just flipping it around.

So again I ask..
That makes stealing okay then?
Or perhaps you'd refer to it as "long term borrowing."

sdfalk · Post by **sdfalk** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:17 pm

...The argument could be flipped back and forth for eternity
(based on your premise)
Which still doesn't negate the fact that if someone has (and uses) software
they didn't pay for, they stole it.

qo · Post by qo » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:28 pm

bitmaniac wrote:not exactly, thats assuming that if people didn't pirate DP more people would buy it? that's simply not true.

You may have a point. Then again, you may not. Since you have made the assertion, the onus is on you to prove it. I'm not convinced. If you can cite research that backs up your claim, or even just state your reasoning, I'll be willing to review it with an open mind.

If someone uses a DAW regularly, and sees value in it, my assertion is that if they had a change of heart, they would pay for it rather than abandon DAW-based music making. They would find a way to afford it in the same why they found a way to afford their computer, and their instruments.

Your assertion seems to be that they would give up DAW-based music making or buy a different DAW. I fail to see why that would be the case unless they were destitute. But, if they already have a computer, and a roof over their head, and an audio interface, and instruments with which to make music, then they are not destitute.

TheHopiWay · Post by **TheHopiWay** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:02 pm

I wonder how some of these DP pirates would feel if while using DP (MOTU's intellectual property) they created a hit tune that someone else then used in a movie without paying any royalties?
I suppose they'd be fine with it since it's not real property like a piece of hardware.......

qo · Post by qo » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:02 pm

bitmaniac wrote:the one guy argued that MOTU doesn't actually lose anything since its not theft of an actual piece of property such as a car. then the other guy said that now he has to pay more because that money MOTU 'would' have made is no longer factored into calculating their price for DP. which is using the same argument, just flipping it around.

Perhaps this is quibbling, but these are not two sides of the same argument.

One person is saying "MOTU is not losing anything" whereas the other person (me) is saying "MOTU is losing something, and passing the cost along to me."

1. MOTU is not losing anything.

2. MOTU is losing something (revenue).

1 does not equal 2. Not the same argument.

croyal · Post by **croyal** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:16 pm

croyal · Post by **croyal** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:30 pm

surrealka,
Same old story- delusions of entitlement. I want a car (software) I see a way to get a free car (software) I rationalize that no one would be hurt (as far as I wish to see) so I take the car (software).

Funny how the criminal mind exists in many different clothes. "They're crminals- the other guys- but not me!" It all comes back to one believing one should have something just because it's available.

I think it's also being thrown around how if one does the right thing after stealing (by actually purchasing the software) it erases the original act. There are many lawyers who would love a shot at prosecuting that case- as with a car (buying it after stealing it from someone) or robbing a bank (giving the money back when you don't need it anymore). Your need DOES NOT grant you entitlement to possession. It's almost as if you're saying it's MOTU's fault for not having a demo. Do you steal cable also?

What's so difficult for people to comprehend about "intellectual property?" Why did you get in so much trouble with your 3rd grade book report when you used someone else's words without giving credit? The ideas and words are not yours any more than is written code, slaved over by programmers. Just because it's easier to steal than is a Buick does not alter the fact of theft. Arguing and justifying the points only reminds us how jails are full of those who believe in "victimless crime" and their only mistake was getting caught. Many of them seek forgivness and offer restitution later as you did- but they don't get out any sooner for the crime they actually did commit.

So let's stop sugar coating all this talk about "wanting to try it out" and "not having the funds." Try it out at the store or a friend's house. But the moment you take home an unauthorized copy you have indeed stolen it. Just like any criminal you took advantge of a person's good nature (in this case MOTU's lack of guard-dog-level iLok security to support their dedicated users) and robbed them while they slept.

Alas, I believe this reply will go unprocessed by you- just as I know if you were prosecuted and found guilty you would probably bitch and moan about the law rather than your culpability. You can't even say "I was being blackmailed into stealing...they've got my wfe and they'll kill her if I don't use DP..." So the wrong-thing-for-the-rght-reason crap goes out the window as well.

ytomk · Post by **ytomk** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:43 pm

Just noticed a link to this on the PSP site:

http://www.imsta.org/

croyal · Post by **croyal** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:56 pm

Excellent link!!!

Thank you, ytomk.

ytomk · Post by **ytomk** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:02 pm

croyal wrote:Excellent link!!!

Thank you, ytomk.

You might also notice the 'Buy the software you use' banner on the PSP Audio site: http://www.pspaudioware.com - it's in the bottom left of the screen.
Might be an idea to get it for here, you know, show some solidarity and all that.