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Robert Randolph wrote:Now howabout them instruments in DP?

I heard at Gearslutz that they suck.



Shoosh

Shooshie wrote:

Robert Randolph wrote:Now howabout them instruments in DP?

I heard at Gearslutz that they suck.



Shoosh

It was even probably me that said it.

Doesn't everything suck at gearsluts at one time or another?

Shooshie wrote:

Robert Randolph wrote:Now howabout them instruments in DP?

I heard at Gearslutz that they suck.

Shoosh

Well, in terms of that part of this topic, and at the risk of fanning the flames relating to some earlier comments herein, I do have to say that I have always found DP's built-in instruments to be next to worthless. Yes, I agree in principle with Shooshie that if you know what you are doing you can build just about any sound you can think up with the built-in tools, but to that I say 'so what'.

Don't get me wrong, I started out on synths back @ university in the early 80's, with patch cords and clipboards for writing down your 'presets'. [Cue the Monty Python sketch '...tell that to the youth of today and they won't believe you...'] But given that things have moved on a tad since then, I don't really buy that sort of argument that the great Shooshie is making.

Analogies are always dangerous, but to me that argument is akin to saying that one can build just about anything you need out of wood, all you need is a good wood chisel and some patience. Given that we now have much more sophisticated tools at our disposal, apart from learning the basics of electronic sound production, I see no real value in the bundled instruments. I don't think they serve much of a purpose, and I would much rather MOTU spent their time on more essential add-ons like updating DP Control, etc.

In terms of the OP's original question (remember that?) '...Anyway, a huge selection of useful VI (realistic acoustic instruments) would tip the scale for me...' my advice would be to forget about all the built-in instruments in GB, Logic and DP. I can't speak for Cubase and the rest, but my guess would be that the situation would be the same.

If it was me, I would spend my money on my DAW platform of choice, then augment that over time with instruments to give me the pallet I want - by the sounds of the question, I would recommend starting out with Kontakt (many more instruments available than all other sampler-instruments and pretty cost-effective).

BKK-OZ wrote: I do have to say that I have always found DP's built-in instruments to be next to worthless. Yes, I agree in principle with Shooshie that if you know what you are doing you can build just about any sound you can think up with the built-in tools, but to that I say 'so what'

I'd have to agree, more or less about DP instruments, but I find them useful as a quick and simple utility if I want to try out a MIDI phrase. I'd have to say EXS24 can be quite useful, and a lot of 3rd party libraries can be had for it, although it is in serious need of an update.

BKK-OZ wrote:I do have to say that I have always found DP's built-in instruments to be next to worthless. Yes, I agree in principle with Shooshie that if you know what you are doing you can build just about any sound you can think up with the built-in tools, but to that I say 'so what'.

Your advice is the advice that I used to give, and still should give, in answer to questions like that of the OP. The truth is that I started having fun with the bundled synths, and I was getting pretty good sounds, to boot, so when I would read how badly they suck, it just made me want to explain that they aren't as bad as they first seem.

But that's not really what's being asked here, and the really important principle SHOULD be:

• • Don't buy a DAW for its instruments. I don't care what DAW it is, possibly excepting Garageband, which has little else BUT its instruments going for it; you should get the digital audio workstation of your choice, based on how it works and how you like to work, and how far you think you can go with it. You can always switch to another one later, if it just doesn't work out. Most of us have two DAWs, minimum, if not several.
  
  • Then buy the instruments you want, separately. That way you get... well, the instruments you want and the DAW you want. There's just no flaw in that course of action. If you're buying because you want to hear some neat sounds, and you just can't wait to hear them, then get Garageband. It's practically free, and the sounds are fun for the first 24 hours or so. After that, you'll want a DAW, and you've gotten your itch to play with sounds out of your system long enough to think rationally about the right one.

That said, if you end up with DP, don't forget to open the bundled instruments and just have some fun. They're quick and easy, and it's still possible to get a lot of great sounds out of them. There really isn't anything wrong with using DP's bundled synths, despite the downers from some of our friends here. Still, when I've had a project for a game or other customer, I've used Tassman4 and Ultra Analog. Yeah, I'm sure they're dated by now, too, but I've got no desire to chase the latest thing, but tend to follow my lifelong path of trying to mature and deepen on something in which I've invested some time. Someone put some time into making those things, and it's a shame to buzz through the presets and not exploit the super-powers of the controls and architecture. Plus, remember that your DAW is the instrument. Don't limit yourself to any VI itself; you've got sound-shaping plugins and a mixing board. Use them.

Come to think of it, about 5 years ago a radio station wanted an update to their old MOOG-based call-letters sound from the late 60s, and I was able to get closest to the sound using DP's bundled synths. They were enthusiastic about the sounds, but after a couple months ended up scrapping the whole project and doing something contemporary instead.

Shoosh

The inclusion of VIs in DP and other DAWs is there to sweeten the deal. The same goes for notation capabilities and many of the plugs. It's just not the essential purpose of the software. As a result it would be unfair to rate the apps based on the included VIs and plugs unless they are exceptional. In that regard, many of DP's plugs are exceptional. Proverb and the MW plugs come to mind but are certainly not the only ones.

They are digital workstations and the basic ruler should be how they deal with digital audio and MIDI - including reliability!

DP is, in fact, falling short in that last aspect. I continually anticipate the "next update" to fix stuff, and often it does. Often enough, the new version introduces new problems that require new workarounds.

Even with all that, I still prefer DP to all the other DAWs I've seen. I add plugs and VIs as needed or when a sale looks good. Notation goes to Finale. All in all, it's a significant investment. If all you're looking for is a bargain, your not going to produce pro level product. It's your choice. Choose wisely.

Wait for DP9, Magilla.

Shooshie wrote:

Robert Randolph wrote:Now howabout them instruments in DP?

I heard at Gearslutz that they suck.

Shoosh

That's settled then. LOL

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Doesn't everything suck at gearsluts at one time or another?

At one time, then another... and another.

Robert Randolph wrote:Well, that discussion went well.

Now howabout them instruments in DP?

It may have been more relevant than you think, Robert. As I said, I felt compelled to delete what I wrote, so as much as I'd like to be able to, I can't give you what you want right now. Wait for DP9 if you can and we'll see then how things sit.

BKK-OZ wrote:Well, in terms of that part of this topic, and at the risk of fanning the flames relating to some earlier comments herein, I do have to say that I have always found DP's built-in instruments to be next to worthless. Yes, I agree in principle with Shooshie that if you know what you are doing you can build just about any sound you can think up with the built-in tools, but to that I say 'so what'.

Don't get me wrong, I started out on synths back @ university in the early 80's, with patch cords and clipboards for writing down your 'presets'. [Cue the Monty Python sketch '...tell that to the youth of today and they won't believe you...'] But given that things have moved on a tad since then, I don't really buy that sort of argument that the great Shooshie is making.

Analogies are always dangerous, but to me that argument is akin to saying that one can build just about anything you need out of wood, all you need is a good wood chisel and some patience. Given that we now have much more sophisticated tools at our disposal, apart from learning the basics of electronic sound production, I see no real value in the bundled instruments. I don't think they serve much of a purpose, and I would much rather MOTU spent their time on more essential add-ons like updating DP Control, etc.

In terms of the OP's original question (remember that?) '...Anyway, a huge selection of useful VI (realistic acoustic instruments) would tip the scale for me...' my advice would be to forget about all the built-in instruments in GB, Logic and DP. I can't speak for Cubase and the rest, but my guess would be that the situation would be the same.

I have to agree with you too, BK.

Can be done, but not much fun at the moment.