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Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:54 am
by Robert Randolph
mikehalloran wrote:I didn't say LP9 to LPX. I said LS9, the successor to LS8 and 7. LP9 was a stripped down version.

I'm on my iPad. When I get to my Mac I can compile just such a list. Do I have to?
I thought LP9 and LS9 had the same version of Logic, but had different extras. I could be wrong there.

I would still like to know about the missing features. This comes up frequently and I've yet see a decent discussion on it.

I have seen discussions of FCPX and the significant number of missing features though. That was a total disaster.

Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:15 am
by bayswater
mikehalloran wrote:I didn't say LP9 to LPX. I said LS9, the successor to LS8 and 7. LP9 was a stripped down version.

I'm on my iPad. When I get to my Mac I can compile just such a list. Do I have to?
I don't think so, but "stripped down" ?? Over the top? Or under the bottom, as the case may be.

Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:05 pm
by mikehalloran
OK, MainStage was spun off and sold separately as is Compressor.

Soundtrack Pro? WaveBurner? Apple Loops Utility? No longer available.

Also http://www.askaudiomag.com/articles/log ... is-it-gone

This is academic to me. I don't care. I have LS8 and LS9 as well as LP X. I didn't reinstall Logic Studio 9 last October and LPX does what I need which is very little as I do any real work in DP.

I never used Aperture so I don't miss it – the version of Photoshop I use still works. The Final Cut mess was not mine but affected many of my friends who moved to Adobe because of it. Fortunately for my wife, the older version of Pages still works with DropBox so she can ignore the current version and iCloud but she is converting back to Office for her needs (I never left Office and convert docs to the current Pages so I can do minor editing on my iPad).

None of this changes what I posted earlier about these apps being made simpler to sell hardware. Agree or disagree –it's not an issue. It is what's happening.

Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:30 pm
by Michael Canavan
mikehalloran wrote:OK, MainStage was spun off and sold separately as is Compressor.

Soundtrack Pro? WaveBurner? Apple Loops Utility? No longer available.

Also http://www.askaudiomag.com/articles/log ... is-it-gone

This is academic to me. I don't care. I have LS8 and LS9 as well as LP X. I didn't reinstall Logic Studio 9 last October and LPX does what I need which is very little as I do any real work in DP.

I never used Aperture so I don't miss it – the version of Photoshop I use still works. The Final Cut mess was not mine but affected many of my friends who moved to Adobe because of it. Fortunately for my wife, the older version of Pages still works with DropBox so she can ignore the current version and iCloud but she is converting back to Office for her needs (I never left Office and convert docs to the current Pages so I can do minor editing on my iPad).

None of this changes what I posted earlier about these apps being made simpler to sell hardware. Agree or disagree –it's not an issue. It is what's happening.
Had a feeling you were talking about the bundled apps in Studio.
Ignoring the other non audio/DAW apps you mentioned, they aren't relevant to this discussion.

They spun those other apps in for a version or two, but if you're insinuating that Apple is dumbing down Logic itself I would have to disagree, and the link you posted ends with this:
The bottom line is that Apple has given us a lot more than it has taken away with Logic Pro X and some of what appears to be taken away has in fact not been taken away, but renamed or key commands reassigned.
Waveburner was a $500 separate app at one point, they only bundled it with Logic for a version or two. OSX versions were never that stable and I can't say I blame them for conceding to the competition. Apple Loops Utility is available for free. https://developer.apple.com/downloads/ I had no use for Compressor, and them selling it separately doesn't in any way make Logic dumbed down, it's a utility for specific people with specific needs. Considering I have little use for Logic X I was glad you could buy MainStage for $29 separately. Most of Soundtrack Pro's features have been rolled into Logic (apple Loops etc), and IMO Soundtrack Pro as a separate app never made sense in the first place.

I think personally Like any huge acquisition Logic etc. had to be assimilated in a way that made sense to them, but there's no indication that somehow Logic is now Garageband, it's sold separately at a 'pro' audience, it's always in the App Store top selling apps.

I think it's just easier to think that Logic is being dumbed down, that it's a loss leader, and that people are only buying it because "Apple". The truth is Logic was already one of the top DAWs out there in 2000 before Apple bought them. It is more geared towards quantized EDM production than DP for sure, but that doesn't mean it can't compete with DP and Nuendo etc. for composition, rock bands, studios etc. it does.

I mean if you want to argue that Logic is dumbed down then you would have to concede that it has features that are somehow more pro than DP as well, and how does that make sense? The time stretching in Logic for instance. DP doesn't allow you to constrain MIDI notes to a range, killing it's ability to load soft synths in a workstation manner with split keyboards etc. I think it's the only DAW I know of that cannot do that simple thing? you have to use your controller keyboards ability to split, which is definitely less handy than having the splits saved in a project etc. Doesn't make DP dumbed down though, or that it doesn't come with a two track editor etc.

In the end of the day we agree that DP is superior, I'm just saying we need to stop trashing on Logic for reasons that are debatable and stick to things that make sense to point out. I can tell you that after switching to Logic years ago if some other DAW user attempted to paint Logic as being made into a toy compared to their DAW, it did zero to convince me of anything except that the person was overtly loyal to 1's and 0's arranged in a specific way.

Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:02 pm
by bayswater
Logic Studio unbundled, yes. Dumbed down, no. Aperture wasn't dumbed down. But iWork was, even though it was pretty dumb to start with.

Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:57 pm
by mikehalloran
bayswater wrote:Logic Studio unbundled, yes. Dumbed down, no. Aperture wasn't dumbed down. But iWork was, even though it was pretty dumb to start with.
Aperture is no longer available. With OS 10.10.3. It was replaced by Photos. This made many very unhappy.
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/507400 ... s-software Scroll down to On the surface Photos can do many of the same things that Aperture could. After exploring some more, I realized that a lot of features had gone missing, including...
Had a feeling you were talking about the bundled apps in Studio.
Very perceptive. What tipped you off? I hope that it was because I posted that was exactly what I was talking about. Yes?
Ignoring the other non audio/DAW apps you mentioned, they aren't relevant to this discussion.
Hmmmm... not your decision, last I checked. What I wrote went exactly to illustrate my point. If you don't like it, feel free to ignore... I don't mind. Really.

Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:07 pm
by bayswater
Aperture it's no longer available but despite numerous reports it remained on my macs along with its library and doesn't work any worse than it did before.

I've played with photo. There are a lot of edit functions that are well hidden but most are there. The data base functions are pretty much gone.

Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:47 pm
by Shooshie
iPhoto still works. I had to use it for some things, but I can't remember what.

Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:52 pm
by Michael Canavan
mikehalloran wrote:
Ignoring the other non audio/DAW apps you mentioned, they aren't relevant to this discussion.
Hmmmm... not your decision, last I checked. What I wrote went exactly to illustrate my point. If you don't like it, feel free to ignore... I don't mind. Really.
I'm not sure why there's ruffled feathers in this reply?
The topic is DP VS Logic, not DP VS Aperture. So yes, bringing up Apertures demise as evidence that Logic is being dumbed down in my opinion isn't relevant. I guess I get that you're trying to tie the demise of Aperture in with Logic Studio being discontinued? but it's simply not the same scenario at all in my opinion. Especially considering many things in Studio were rolled into Logic or sold separately for a grand total of less than what Studio cost.

It's perfectly OK to disagree about the perceived direction of a piece of software and it's certainly no reason to not be civil. :)

Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:03 pm
by James Steele
I think there definitely needs to be more civility in here. I don't even need the [SARCASM][/SARCASM] tags to hear it loud and clear. Let's just try to pull back on the barbs? :shake:

Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:16 pm
by monkey man
Michael Canavan wrote:DP doesn't allow you to constrain MIDI notes to a range, killing it's ability to load soft synths in a workstation manner with split keyboards etc. I think it's the only DAW I know of that cannot do that simple thing? you have to use your controller keyboards ability to split, which is definitely less handy than having the splits saved in a project etc. Doesn't make DP dumbed down though, or that it doesn't come with a two track editor etc.
I've not explored the possibilities of the feature properly, but isn't it possible to achieve this by creating MIDI Devices? I think that's what they're called - you know, the ability to group channels a-la-carte from various devices into one.

Just checkin', Michael, and definitely staying out of this debate as I've not used or even seen Logic... or any other DAW except for those I ran on the ol' ATARI.

Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:41 pm
by iGirl
Resistance was futile.

After looking at these two (and Reeaper briefly) - despite my long history with DP, for now, I couldn't resist going with Logic Pro X due to the overwhelming amount of "extras" - VI/sounds, FX, sampler, Drummer/designer/ loops etc.

I had been looking at buying extra hardware synths, or software to do these things in DP, but the cost of LPX is an overwhelmingly favorable alternative, so it only made sense.

Almost 100% for sure I'll end up with DP9 as well at some point - but for now I'm digging in trying to learn my way around LPX. Routing my K2000-VX 12 string electric through one of the many guitar amps in LPX is a blast. I can see it could be a huge time wormhole just playing around with things, but the basics are all there to accomplish if one takes their ADD meds and focuses on getting work done! :D

Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:00 pm
by James Steele
iGirl wrote:...despite my long history with DP, for now, I couldn't resist going with Logic Pro X due to the overwhelming amount of "extras"...
That's how they get ya. :) In my case, I had a pretty solid collection of VIs, not to mention existing projects in DP, so the "extras" don't really factor in for me. They do for other people. :)

Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:24 pm
by Shooshie
Not to mention those neat little pictures of flutes and cellos and stuff on the tracks! :D
C'mon, MOTU! When are we going to get pictures of trombones and ophicleides?

:koolaid:

Shoosh

Re: Digital Performer Vs Logic Pro X

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:49 pm
by Robert Randolph
Shooshie wrote:Not to mention those neat little pictures of flutes and cellos and stuff on the tracks! :D
C'mon, MOTU! When are we going to get pictures of trombones and ophicleides?

:koolaid:

Shoosh
When I've used Logic, I've found those icons pretty useful. It's way better than trying to read the fonts in DP sometimes (especially in windows). :surrender:

Then again, you can't even use Logic in windows, so I guess that's not much of a positive now is it?