MOTUnation.com

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Well, my concerns are whether or not updates to apps like DP, VIs, FInale and everything else will require Snow Leopard. That would mean an upgrade from my G5 which is quite adequate for my work. It would also mean spending about $5k after I update the RAM and everything else (software, etc.) I am bound and determined to stay on my current system for at least another few years. Same goes for my truck!

It's really hard to tell what's going on. Snow Leopard will have a 64-bit kernel, but many have cited that this doesn't mean it will be 64-bit only. To the extent that Universal Binary means 32 + 64 bit threading, as opposed to just PPC + Intel usability, the current concept of what Universal Binary as most people understand it could be changing.

For this reason, I'm anticipating that what Universal Binary might mean will be a point of further confusion to a lot of people after Snow Leopard is released.

Here's another slight point of confusion:

NOTE: the article is about a year old, but sums up a lot of lingering questions even if it doesn't answer them:
The Myths of Snow Leopard

The advantages of moving to 64-bit apps apply mainly to those that need to access large memory spaces, such as apps working with large files or data sets.

Understood..

For some apps, moving to a 64-bit binary actually causes them to run slower, because they have more memory to manage.

And why is it that some apps benefit and others don't? Isn't OSX already memory-savvy enough to help parse how much memory is needed no matter how large or small a memory space is called for?

Does this mean that this would happen under Tiger/Leopard with a 64-bit app? Or do they mean under Snow Leopard?

Overall however, Apple found that moving the entire OS to 64-bits created an system wide performance gain of 15%....

So, this "overall... performance gain" seems to address the issue from another angle-- the system itself and not the individual application.... if I'm connecting the dots properly.

But the article also cites:

... all system apps in Snow Leopard will be 32+64 Universal Binaries, unlocking more of the latent performance available in modern 64-bit Macs....

That means [under 10.6] developers will need to deliver 32+64 bit versions of all their kernel extensions and device drivers. All plugins will also need to provide 64-bit support as well, including printer drivers.

Thus, it remains to be seen which apps will benefit and which won't.

With that out of the way, just knowing that Snow Leopard will be 32+64 UB (as opposed to PPC+Intel UB) could be strong evidence that what we use now *should* work, pending the usual expected maintenance fixes from one developer to another.

I'm still going to watch and wait before moving to 10.6. There was enough to worry about going from one version of OSX to another, however small. I just don't have enough info to take the next step with any real confidence.

I do know this: we must hear from MOTU about what's going with DP first before we can do anything at all, no matter what's going on with Logic 9.

Frodo wrote: I do know this: we must hear from MOTU about what's going with DP first before we can do anything at all, no matter what's going on with Logic 9.

Not only is that your bottom line, but the bottom line IMO. It's been pretty quiet concerning any updates from MOTU for any apps, including DP and the VI's. So who knows? Does anybody?

OTOH, I just came from Fry's and saw the iMacs and for about $1200 I can get an Intel iMac for my music stuff and still keep my trusty G5 PPc and dueling 19" monitors for lots of other stuff that I either won't or can't update. Maybe even just push the G5 into VI server mode? I really can't see springing for a Mac Pro at this point. I'm liking the current scenario as I can also ditch my older machines once and for all.

As for the article, it is WAY over my little brain and comfort level. But I liked seeing all those big words and even the smaller ones I never knew existed, like datum. I used to dat'um and leave 'em when I was younger...

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:
As for the article, it is WAY over my little brain and comfort level. But I liked seeing all those big words and even the smaller ones I never knew existed, like datum. I used to dat'um and leave 'em when I was younger...

Disaster? What do you mean? It darn-near KILLED her!!

For the life of me, I cannot remember the rest of that joke-- probably a good thing.


Too bad there weren't any pictures in the article!! We like looking at the pictures.

Yeah, I know. The info is scant-- what little there is doesn't really answer the question of how much it will potentially cost users to get caught up. Of course, there's always the wisdom that doing nothing will cost nothing, in which case all of this is moot.

Here you go Frodo...

Click and you shall receive...

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Here you go Frodo...

Click and you shall receive...

... or something like that....

You know, I'd never heard those "killed him" versions before.

Ah, Logic.

FWIW, M-Tron Pro fails validation in L9.

Fine with DP, fine with Jambalaya (I don't 'validate' anyhow - if it works it works).

So there's one way L9 sux.

Also new Mainstage (sorry POS that it is) requires 10.5.7 which has been problematic for DP users.

Gotta love GForce - they sent me a beta build that fixed my problem about 2 hours later

Well, well. As far as I know there are loads of angry Logic 9 users. It looks that it has loads of bugs and still not 64bit (which I find reasonable as OSX.6 is not here yet and I think Logic won't be 64 bit as soon as OSX.6 comes out...No software company will do that (I guess) because they might have to deal with OSX.6 whenever is out and fix their products from that point and then release their software whenever is usable. So no hurry (from me) to ask MOTU to be just ready as soon as OSX.6 is out , I would prefer to give us a new DP after a long test with OSX.6...In the meanwhile...An update for DP6.02 would be more than well received

Talking about Logic 9...check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_it5UXV ... annel_page

iPerformer wrote:Well, well. As far as I know there are loads of angry Logic 9 users. It looks that it has loads of bugs and still not 64bit (which I find reasonable as OSX.6 is not here yet and I think Logic won't be 64 bit as soon as OSX.6 comes out...No software company will do that (I guess) because they might have to deal with OSX.6 whenever is out and fix their products from that point and then release their software whenever is usable. So no hurry (from me) to ask MOTU to be just ready as soon as OSX.6 is out , I would prefer to give us a new DP after a long test with OSX.6...In the meanwhile...An update for DP6.02 would be more than well received

Talking about Logic 9...check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_it5UXV ... annel_page

Ilogical DOES it again.

kassonica wrote: Talking about Logic 9...check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_it5UXV ... annel_page

[/quote]

Watching now - but after 3 minutes was SURE Logic is NOT for me. Seems awfully convoluted!

OK, I'll pay MOTU as SHooshie said - in the hope they will fix this stuff. But frankly, it seems like a trade off. A few bugs I can work around in DP (or use DP 5.13) or get a whole new set of bugs that I need to go thru a new learning curve only to discover a new set of bugs in Logic! Nah! Even if MOTU went belly up tomorrow, I think I'll just stay where I am and hope for the best.

iPerformer wrote:Well, well. As far as I know there are loads of angry Logic 9 users. It looks that it has loads of bugs and still not 64bit (which I find reasonable as OSX.6 is not here yet and I think Logic won't be 64 bit as soon as OSX.6 comes out...No software company will do that (I guess) because they might have to deal with OSX.6 whenever is out and fix their products from that point and then release their software whenever is usable. So no hurry (from me) to ask MOTU to be just ready as soon as OSX.6 is out , I would prefer to give us a new DP after a long test with OSX.6...In the meanwhile...An update for DP6.02 would be more than well received

Talking about Logic 9...check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_it5UXV ... annel_page

LOL!!

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:

kassonica wrote: Talking about Logic 9...check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_it5UXV ... annel_page

Watching now - but after 3 minutes was SURE Logic is NOT for me. Seems awfully convoluted!

OK, I'll pay MOTU as SHooshie said - in the hope they will fix this stuff. But frankly, it seems like a trade off. A few bugs I can work around in DP (or use DP 5.13) or get a whole new set of bugs that I need to go thru a new learning curve only to discover a new set of bugs in Logic! Nah! Even if MOTU went belly up tomorrow, I think I'll just stay where I am and hope for the best.[/quote]


I can tell MLC that I came to DP from Logic and thats the only way one could do it. My wife has L8 and I throw my hands up in frustration mins into using it for how Ilogical it really is.

Love the narrator's voice and attitude.... and the censor's bleeps.

I have to take that video with a grain of salt. He seems to know what he's doing, but I don't know Logic, so I don't know if there are other troubleshooting things he could/should be doing to solve that problem, or how thorough he is at maintaining his system. When I watched yesterday, I didn't see comments from people confirming the problem - only people saying that after seeing that video, they're glad they hadn't upgraded.

I've certainly had my share of times where I thought something was wrong with DP or my equipment, only to eventually discover it was really 'operator error.'

(Of course, I've also had a good number of instances where there really was something up with DP, even if MOTU initially denied it. I think it was back in the DP 3 days when I called tech support saying DP was crashing every time I tried to load in a particular WAV file. I got the usual line that it was my system, and I should reinstall my OS. Then I mentioned it to magicd, and he did the logical thing of asking me to send the file (tech support hadn't thought of this). He reproduced the problem, sent the file to the engineers, and it turned out there was a variation to the WAV header that DP wasn't yet coded to recognize...)

HCMarkus wrote:Love the narrator's voice and attitude.... and the censor's bleeps.

Yeah, the bleeps are a riot! He is such a proper Brit! So out of my element!