Pro Verb Confusion

[Armageddon]

Oh, sorry. Yes both sides load up, but you only see the left side in the display.

You can test all this by making a three-second interleaved stereo soundbite with, for example, a guitar hard left and a piano hard right. Drag that soundbite into ProVerb and copy it to Share in the menu. This will make two mono instances (00 and 01) in Proverbs share folder. Switch to any other IR and then select the IR you just made from the share menu. When you route signal through Proverb, you will hear guitar on the left and the piano on the right.

Thanks! Again, I guess the debate on whether or not Left, Right or Center = stereo has been resolved, but it's very odd that only one impulse shows up in the display, if for no other reason than, just as you demonstrated, you were to import your own stereo impulses, you'd want to know they were both present and accounted for in an instance of Pro Verb. At the very least, you should be able to switch views between the two of them. I also don't know whether "Gang" in the display means "both left and right impulses together" or what; there is no literature on MOTU's site or in the manual explaining this. If I'd been able to see two discrete impulses in the display when I loaded up "Bright Hall Center" in a stereo Pro Verb instead of one, I would have immediately understood it was a stereo impulse and had no further questions. Heck, a detailed explanation in the manual would have been welcome.

[wurliuchi]

Oh, sorry. Yes both sides load up, but you only see the left side in the display.

You can test all this by making a three-second interleaved stereo soundbite with, for example, a guitar hard left and a piano hard right. Drag that soundbite into ProVerb and copy it to Share in the menu. This will make two mono instances (00 and 01) in Proverbs share folder. Switch to any other IR and then select the IR you just made from the share menu. When you route signal through Proverb, you will hear guitar on the left and the piano on the right.

Thanks! Again, I guess the debate on whether or not Left, Right or Center = stereo has been resolved, but it's very odd that only one impulse shows up in the display, if for no other reason than, just as you demonstrated, you were to import your own stereo impulses, you'd want to know they were both present and accounted for in an instance of Pro Verb. At the very least, you should be able to switch views between the two of them. I also don't know whether "Gang" in the display means "both left and right impulses together" or what; there is no literature on MOTU's site or in the manual explaining this. If I'd been able to see two discrete impulses in the display when I loaded up "Bright Hall Center" in a stereo Pro Verb instead of one, I would have immediately understood it was a stereo impulse and had no further questions. Heck, a detailed explanation in the manual would have been welcome.

I'm just happy to have it... and it works. Being that it's a stock plug included with DP, I didn't expect Alitverb. I do agree that it can be a bit confusing and frustrating at first. The way the mix knob works is just silly.

Glad to have it, though. On my old system I couldn't run Alitiverb, and now that I have my new system I can't afford it.

Now that we have it figured out, I feel better about it.

[Armageddon]

[I'm just happy to have it... and it works. Being that it's a stock plug included with DP, I didn't expect Alitverb. I do agree that it can be a bit confusing and frustrating at first. The way the mix knob works is just silly.

Glad to have it, though. On my old system I couldn't run Alitiverb, and now that I have my new system I can't afford it.

Now that we have it figured out, I feel better about it.

Same here -- it's nice to finally have a convolution reverb on hand (I'm a few purchases shy of having the spare dough to cough up for Altiverb myself!), I just wish they'd put a bit more effort into it. If they didn't want to make it as full-featured as Altiverb, which began life as a MAS plug, so I'm sure DP doesn't want to introduce brand rivalry with AudioEase, they should have at least aimed for something like Waves' IR-L.

[EMRR]

Glad to have it included, I'm just starting to really mess with it. The mix knob is stupid. I use the Apple Matrix reverb a good bit, and it's nice to have another useable ITB to go with my two real plates. My older hardware verbs sit around unused for years.

[Armageddon]

Glad to have it included, I'm just starting to really mess with it. The mix knob is stupid. I use the Apple Matrix reverb a good bit, and it's nice to have another useable ITB to go with my two real plates. My older hardware verbs sit around unused for years.

You should also check out PSP's EasyVerb and IKMultimedia's CSR -- I think EasyVerb, especially, gets a lot of vintage plate sounds right.

[monkey man]

Now that all that's sorted out, I'd like to ask a burning (for me at least) question:

In terms of file handling, the manual states that IRs are handled much as samples are in Model12 (at least, I think it was M12). In fact, it indicates that one can build/edit one's library from the User/Lib/App Support/MOTU/ProVerb/Impulse Responses folder. There is no such folder, but instead a bundle named "User". Even when I create such a folder and place IRs into it, it's not seen by DP.

The best result I've had so far was by dragging multiple IRs onto the interface and copying the "Project" package to the aforementioned location, renaming it as "User". Subsequent additions required my copying and pasting the new XML data, along with the IRs, to this "pseudo" user package. Unfortunately, this is not only a convoluted process(!), but sub folders don't seem possible.

My suggestion: MOTU allows us to copy our IR libraries to the "Impulse Responses" folder, as the manual suggests. DP scans this folder upon instantiation of ProVerb, unless an XML overview is already present (meaning that we could trash it for automatic rebuilding whenever we make changes to said folder). My guess is that this file is present to avoid DP's having to rescan every time one browses IRs from within ProVerb, but I know nothing about this stuff, so I could be wrong about that. Still, even if MOTU insists upon this methodology, surely we should be allowed to drag multiple, hierarchical folders to this IR folder and be done with it, forcing a re-scan at worst?

I've been pushing since this plug appeared for a simple method of incorporating multi-gigabyte IR libraries into its list, but to no avail. Ideas, 'Cornies?

[wurliuchi]

Now that all that's sorted out, I'd like to ask a burning (for me at least) question:

In terms of file handling, the manual states that IRs are handled much as samples are in Model12 (at least, I think it was M12). In fact, it indicates that one can build/edit one's library from the User/Lib/App Support/MOTU/ProVerb/Impulse Responses folder. There is no such folder, but instead a bundle named "User". Even when I create such a folder and place IRs into it, it's not seen by DP.

The best result I've had so far was by dragging multiple IRs onto the interface and copying the "Project" package to the aforementioned location, renaming it as "User". Subsequent additions required my copying and pasting the new XML data, along with the IRs, to this "pseudo" user package. Unfortunately, this is not only a convoluted process(!), but sub folders don't seem possible.

My suggestion: MOTU allows us to copy our IR libraries to the "Impulse Responses" folder, as the manual suggests. DP scans this folder upon instantiation of ProVerb, unless an XML overview is already present (meaning that we could trash it for automatic rebuilding whenever we make changes to said folder). My guess is that this file is present to avoid DP's having to rescan every time one browses IRs from within ProVerb, but I know nothing about this stuff, so I could be wrong about that. Still, even if MOTU insists upon this methodology, surely we should be allowed to drag multiple, hierarchical folders to this IR folder and be done with it, forcing a re-scan at worst?

I've been pushing since this plug appeared for a simple method of incorporating multi-gigabyte IR libraries into its list, but to no avail. Ideas, 'Cornies?

This will not help you at all, MM, it's just for information:

I copy to the Shared (root) level instead of the User level, but this will apply to the User and Project level as well.

I can move IR folders in and out of the Shared Packages: Library/Application Support/MOTU/Proverb/Shared (ctrl click > Show Package Contents)

User level would be: /User/Library/Application Support/MOTU/Proverb/User (ctrl click > Show Package Contents)

Project level would be: Project Hard drive/Project Folder/Plug-in Data/Proverb/Project (ctrl > Show Package contents)

This is handy for getting rid of the IRs you don't want showing up in the menu anymore, but the IRs you add have to have been already processed by ProVerb or they are not recognized by it. Also, there is no way I know of to categorize the IRs. I know it can be done because the Factory IRs are categorized, but I don't know how to do it, and it seems like an awful lot of work and extra steps.

So I agree with you. The IR management in ProVerb has to be improved (or added) in the future. I can see how I would like it to be done, but I'm too tired to explain it.

BTW, MM, I sent you some PMs but I think your baskets are too full.

[Armageddon]

Is it possible that you have to save whatever imported IRs you drag into Pro Verb as part of an actual preset?

MOTU really needs to work on this (or at least provide more than a couple of paragraphs about it).

[monkey man]

Wurliuchi:

Thank you, Wurli. Yes, you're correct about those packages.

On the "have to have been processed by PV" thing, this is why I suspected that the Node.xml file is used as a reference as to what's where as far as the plug's concerned. My suggestion was that PV scan the package (which should be the "Impulse Responses" folder according to the manual, but as I said, such a folder doesn't exist) for compatible files and update or create the xml file as needed. This would still allow lightning-fast IR navigation from within the plug; one would simply have to allow it a few seconds to scan the folder upon first instantiation and whenever one's trashed the xml file in order to force a rescan due to, say, additions to or the rearrangement/renaming of one's IR library folders.

Thank you for the PM, mate. I'm really sorry, Wurli, but it'll be a few days until I open that can o' worms; there's a decent pile of 'em awaiting my attention, hence my "public PM notice" in the most inconsistently long, historically-threaded off-topic monstrosity that resides in the OT section. FWIMBW, I listened to the "Toad" CD last night; it provided the perfect atmosphere for a few hours of grieving down-time. She's a star - so sincere, patient, driven, humble, insightful, self-deprecating and exacting. I hope to marry such a woman one day.

Armageddon:

No, you don't have to save a preset. Of course, if any preset references an added IR, that IR would have to remain in the project, shared or user package that it was saved to by the plug when it was first dragged in (unless copied using PV's IR menu). To be clear, I've been referring only to the IR menu and not the preset one.

I couldn't agree more that MOTU needs to sort this out. Those few paragraphs you referred to aren't even that, AFAICR, but rather a single, very short one that points the reader to (I think) Model12's methods of sample handling, stating that PV works the same way.

[wurliuchi]

Wurliuchi:
Thank you for the PM, mate. I'm really sorry, Wurli, but it'll be a few days until I open that can o' worms;

No worries, no hurries.

FWIMBW, I listened to the "Toad" CD last night; it provided the perfect atmosphere for a few hours of grieving down-time. She's a star - so sincere, patient, driven, humble, insightful, self-deprecating and exacting. I hope to marry such a woman one day.

That's very kind. I'm glad it was of some help to you. I'll pass it on.

BTW, I think you're spot-on about how to fix ProVerb. Good thinking.

Hang in.

[Armageddon]

Armageddon:

No, you don't have to save a preset. Of course, if any preset references an added IR, that IR would have to remain in the project, shared or user package that it was saved to by the plug when it was first dragged in (unless copied using PV's IR menu). To be clear, I've been referring only to the IR menu and not the preset one.

I couldn't agree more that MOTU needs to sort this out. Those few paragraphs you referred to aren't even that, AFAICR, but rather a single, very short one that points the reader to (I think) Model12's methods of sample handling, stating that PV works the same way.

I agree, I keep saying it feels like they included Pro Verb and MW Leveler almost as an afterthought as part of 6 (and Pro Verb's interface and, most likely, its operation were taken from the UVI engine, so it wasn't even developed inside of MOTU from the ground up) -- maybe not such a big deal for Leveler, which has a very basic, LA-2A style mode of operation (though it seems to me that the problems people have been having with it stem from its origins as a built-in hardware effect in the new series of MOTU's audio interfaces!), but for something as intricate as Pro Verb, a few pages of detailed explanation and maybe some onboard presets to go along with its factory impulses, just to demonstrate its practical usage, would have been appreciated. Sadly, because it's a ported UVI plug, it'll likely be one of the last things MOTU gets around to finishing in this incarnation of DP, if ever. Maybe by DP 7?

[monkey man]

I hear ya, Armored One, but I refuse to be so piss-in-the-mystic. LOL

Thank you for the PM, mate. I'm really sorry, Wurli, but it'll be a few days until I open that can o' worms;

No worries, no hurries.

Yay! I'll start wading through them in a few days. Thanks man.

FWIMBW, I listened to the "Toad" CD last night; it provided the perfect atmosphere for a few hours of grieving down-time. She's a star - so sincere, patient, driven, humble, insightful, self-deprecating and exacting. I hope to marry such a woman one day.

That's very kind. I'm glad it was of some help to you. I'll pass it on.

Please do. I was hoping you would. Thank you, D.

BTW, I think you're spot-on about how to fix ProVerb. Good thinking.

Y-y-y-e-e-e-s-s-s-!-!-!

There you go MOTU. You have your brief. Now... get to it!

Hang in.

Hangin' seems to be one of my forte's, so I'll gladly follow your suggestion, Wurli.

Thank you again, mate.