MOTUnation.com

toodamnhip wrote:I think all criticism thus far is misguided..seriously..this is the future and the guy should be congratulated without any negativity...

I think it's an amazing accomplishment for sure. I'm not negative about it. For some this will be a tool for slicing, dicing, morphing, and otherwise mangling recorded audio and samples. For others it will be useful for occasionally fixing something minor. I anticipate I'm in the latter group, but that's just as a result of the kind of music I'm interested in.

James Steele wrote:

toodamnhip wrote:I think all criticism thus far is misguided..seriously..this is the future and the guy should be congratulated without any negativity...

I think it's an amazing accomplishment for sure. I'm not negative about it. For some this will be a tool for slicing, dicing, morphing, and otherwise mangling recorded audio and samples. For others it will be useful for occasionally fixing something minor. I anticipate I'm in the latter group, but that's just as a result of the kind of music I'm interested in.

I wasnt referring to any perceived negativity on your part..but to be more clear, I am suprised anyone would have the slightest negative thing to say...

Again, this is the future I have forseen in my mind for yrs...

We are at an amazing door step..one that doesnt bother me at all when it comes to the shallower potentials of bad ass musicianship..because..I can play my ass off thus, I only see it as a highly skilled tool..I dont really care if it makes idiots play better,,lol

But really, this is a great tool for someone who has clients that aren't quite there as far as a player goes. I get this from time to time and it is just a relief to be able to "fix" some parts rather than sit there for 3 hours while they TRY....

And yes, I'm an old school player of a few instruments and yes, I can read music, blah, blah, blah.... Started with 2 cassette decks and played everything live. blah.blah,blah... But if I wait for everybody to nail it the way I would, NOTHING would get done, sorry to say....

And just think of the "Wow, you're a genius!" look you'll get after tuning that D chord that your client just choked out of his tele.....

But really, this is a great tool for someone who has clients that aren't quite there as far as a player goes. I get this from time to time and it is just a relief to be able to "fix" some parts rather than sit there for 3 hours while they TRY....

especially singers.

And yes, I'm an old school player of a few instruments and yes, I can read music, blah, blah, blah.... Started with 2 cassette decks and played everything live. blah.blah,blah... But if I wait for everybody to nail it the way I would, NOTHING would get done, sorry to say....

Same here and I started with two cassette decks too, I thought I invented sound on sound...I didn't.

and...

If this thing works as demonstrated, it will make my work easier.
I've worked with brilliant musicians, that at times "I" have misdirected. If I can correct those mistakes post.........

Even changing a piece from minor to major is major. "the music seems a little sad, could you change it, oh and there's a deadline" yea, give me an hour.

The problem for me is I'll probably isolate even more than I do now.

Creatively, this thing could be off the chart.

toodamnhip wrote:

James Steele wrote:

toodamnhip wrote:I think all criticism thus far is misguided..seriously..this is the future and the guy should be congratulated without any negativity...

I think it's an amazing accomplishment for sure. I'm not negative about it. For some this will be a tool for slicing, dicing, morphing, and otherwise mangling recorded audio and samples. For others it will be useful for occasionally fixing something minor. I anticipate I'm in the latter group, but that's just as a result of the kind of music I'm interested in.

I wasnt referring to any perceived negativity on your part..but to be more clear, I am suprised anyone would have the slightest negative thing to say...

Again, this is the future I have forseen in my mind for yrs...

We are at an amazing door step..one that doesnt bother me at all when it comes to the shallower potentials of bad ass musicianship..because..I can play my ass off thus, I only see it as a highly skilled tool..I dont really care if it makes idiots play better,,lol

Every time we have a technical breakthrough, some people embrace it right away, others wait and see, and others criticize it. But technology will proceed anyway despite any qualms we might individually have, and eventually most of us will be utilizing the new capabilities in our workflows. We might not like what seems to be the declining art of actually being able to play traditional musical instruments, but then others will argue that we are moving into an era where the instrument is the computer, and it is difficult to argue against that notion.

I for one welcome our new Celemony Overlords.

Remember what Cher's, "Believe" did for auto-tune.

Who's gonna be the first crazy artist / producer to take this effect to that level ? Could create a whole new pop "style"...

I'm definitely gonna get crafty.

I'll bet that before you can say, "Monkey, you're full of it", DP's pitch correction will have this functionality too.
OK, so if MOTU does it MOTU-style, we'll have to wait 30 years, but I have a dream...

PS: Dammit boys, let's send MOTU a truckload of instant coffee and one-way plane tickets to Siberia dated, oh I don't know... for 6 months' time and see what happens.
Said gifts could be accompanied by a small note: A feature request list.
The idea would be to get DP to where we know she can be, and pretty much negate the need for all 3rd party purchases.

Come on - even the fussiest of us know it's possible; we'll just have to wait another 4 or 5 years, hence my suggestion that we implement the MonkeyLabs•„• Incentive Programme MkIV•„•.

billf wrote:... others will argue that we are moving into an era where the instrument is the computer, and it is difficult to argue against that notion.

Precisely!

I'll go one step further: It's impossible to argue against that notion.

- c

billf wrote:

... others will argue that we are moving into an era where the instrument is the computer...

I think were already there. For some anyway.

Will it keep people from bothering to learn a conventional instrument?
Maybe, maybe the people who decided to learn will be of a more dedicated nature. The super-er musician. Then again, maybe we've hit the wall without bio enhancements. Some players (the creme de la creme) I can't imagine being any better than what the human condition has to offer.

TOD wrote:Remember what Cher's, "Believe" did for auto-tune.

Who's gonna be the first crazy artist / producer to take this effect to that level ? Could create a whole new pop "style"...

I'm definitely gonna get crafty.

That's my point of view. At first look these things seem like they are an endless fountain of creative potential. Auto-Tune, aside from the Cher thing, is really just used to fix things. It changed everything for sure, but maybe not in the way some people thought it would. It mostly just makes some jobs easier and didn't open worlds of creative possibilities.

It's hard to predict how technology will be used, and we're surrounded with "OMG you can watch TV on your phone". But who wants to?

bb

dogBoy wrote:

But really, this is a great tool for someone who has clients that aren't quite there as far as a player goes. I get this from time to time and it is just a relief to be able to "fix" some parts rather than sit there for 3 hours while they TRY....

especially singers.

Fortunately, DP's current pitch correction deals pretty well with singers. It would be interesting to see how well Melodyne's DNA might go in and fix a note when you have three singers singing harmony in front of a single mic.

You guys can dismiss me as an old codger, but I tend to prefer music that's played rather than manipulated.

James Steele

Fortunately, DP's current pitch correction deals pretty well with singers. It would be interesting to see how well Melodyne's DNA might go in and fix a note when you have three singers singing harmony in front of a single mic.

I use DP correction often. I've gotten pretty good with it.

or- three singing unison and not catching one out of tune. I wonder what Melodynes pitch threshold will be in those situations.

I use to record jingle singers back in the day (the late 80's, early 90's), working for NY musichouses. Some singers were hired because of the character of their voice, not for their musicianship or they were someone's friend or cousin. Those could be tuff gigs, punching syllables on 24 trk Studers 800, then punching out in time not to erase the next line that took 20 minutes to get in tune.


I prefer playing the guitar to pushing data around (most of the time), it's nice to have the option thou.

just to repeat....

bloody hell

beautypill wrote:

billf wrote:... others will argue that we are moving into an era where the instrument is the computer, and it is difficult to argue against that notion.

Precisely!

I'll go one step further: It's impossible to argue against that notion.

It is not only possible and easy to argue against it, but it's even obligatory -- the only instrument is: the air. All the other things (speakers, soundcards, computing machines, numeric programs, keyboards, guitars, clarinets, drums, voices, etc.) are only means to play the instrument air. Now who would argue against that?!

melodyne, schmelodyne.

James Steele wrote:You guys can dismiss me as an old codger, but I tend to prefer music that's played rather than manipulated.

I hear ya, but this brings up the most interesting topic raised by this new melodyne technology: why distinguish about process?

I mean, where does, say, Radiohead fall along the "played" vs. "manipulated" continuum? What is manipulation? Is the use of guitar pedals manipulation? Or is that playing? Does process matter anymore?

Ever see the film footage of people freaking out because Dylan strapped on an electric guitar instead of an acoustic one? I mean, there's a guy who yells out "Judas!" in the audience. People thought that the acoustic guitar was more "pure" and "honest" than the electric guitar. Doesn't that seem kinda silly now?

The computer is just another instrument. When I spend all night with my macbook and headphones contorting sound files into new shapes, I am "playing" as much as when I strap on my beloved '52 telecaster, firing up my favorite amp. Both energies come from the same place: my heart.

If I accepted your language of characterization, I would say that the music I make is a hybrid of "played" and "manipulated." But at no point during my process do I distinguish between the two. It's all just creation.

It seems to me the only thing that matters is emotional impact, however you achieve it.

- c