FYI...DP 11.01 is out

[mikehalloran]

There's no Apple.Silicon version, and there will never be. It will obviously continue to work on running Intel systems, but it is being removed with due haste from most applications. …

Since there's no practical substitute, I do not see it being removed from most applications. The latest builds from Finale and Notion still install Rewire components. Since the build dates are 2012, it would surprise me if it works over Apple Silicon but I've heard no reports one way or the other.

I'd be happy to not use it anymore but DP needs to implement MusicXML Import — a function that Logic and other DAWs have had for years, now. Every time I speak to anyone at MOTU about this, I am asked why anyone would need the functionality.

Rewire works in real time; MusicXML does not but that's ok. Just trying to get my work done here and an extra couple of steps is a minor inconvenience.

Someday, I expect to move over to an Apple Silicon iMac or Mac Pro. If Finale and DP can no longer talk to each other, it will force me to embrace Logic. I hope it does not come to that.

I've asked over at the Finale forums if anyone is using Rewire on an AS Mac and if it works over Rosetta.

[dewdman42]

None of that matters. It’s not supported by propellarheads any more and could be subject to all manner of software compatibility issues, with or without silicon Mac. Motu tech support already basically tried to shame me for using rewire even though I wasn’t even trying to use rewire, telling me specifically that rewire is not supported any more and apparently not by them either, and also apparently even the mere presence of the rewire drivers on the system can cause a problem in dp 11.01 which they will take no responsibility t interest in trying to solve.

And nor should they since its no longer supported by propeller heads at all, the drivers are old and if they happen to work great for you, but someday they will stop working and that’s it. Little by little all software will remove their support in any degree for rewire. If some old cogweb caliber code happens to still be lurking around and seems to still work for some people ok fine but as more people have issues with it, especially the kind of problems where the mere presence of the driver on the system causes an app to crash, then that support for an unsupported and antiquated system will be summarily removed, you can count on that.

In my view motu should remove it entirely right now if they are not going to support it and ensure that it works properly and won’t crash dp then they should pull it out, especially if their point of view is apparently that we should not be trying to use it. If that is their point of view, then take it out so that dp doesn’t crash.

Any of you using it on the last remaining fumes, enjoy yourselves, not sure why it causes some of us to crash and not some others but that can easily be something as simple as the rewire driver version or some other simple thing that nobody is going to figure out. So enjoy that it works but start looking for another solution because no matter what rewire is going away, whether you like it or not. And as long as it is at least sometimes causing dp to crash, motu should eradicate it completely for reasons of stability, and I am confident they will, sooner or later.

[Michael Canavan]

Rewire support is documented in Chapter 33 of the DP11 User Guide. In what way is that "unsupported"?

I've had great success rewiring DP and Notion 6, at least through DP10 (haven't checked on DP11 yet). DP's rewire support has been pretty great, supporting transport from either app, MIDI as well as audio etc.

Propellerheads (now called Reason Studios), dropped rewire support in Reason 11, and deprecated rewire in general. It's pretty sad really, rewire was a great idea, but being (although free), owned by one company, when they no longer saw a use for it, it gets tossed.

An initial test I did with DP11 and Ableton Live 10 was fruitless, Live did not go into slave mode and DP11 did not recognize it. You can still see the rewire busses in DP though.

What Propellerheads/Reason does is pretty much irrelevant for other DAWs (many) who use rewire and work well together, other than that Reason won't produce updates. Nothing that already works should stop working (until Apple breaks it on a new OS). Presonus uses rewire as the primary synchronization mechanism between Notion and Studio One.

Unfortunately there is no other current tech that can do what rewire does. Messages (not yours above) claiming it's a virus etc are FUD and serve no one. I understand it being frustrating, and appreciate the troubleshooting, but what's the point of the hyperbole?

Just checked in DP 11.00 with Notion 6, and rewire transport sync and MIDI transfer work fine (as documented).

So you're not understanding, and being overtly defensive here. We have more than one case were reWire is causing DP 11.01 to crash for people, the solution is to remove rewire. In my case this is not happening, but rewire refused to sync the first time I tried it, the second time rewiring Live into DP11.01 caused Live to crash. There's absolutly no reason for Reason Studios, Ableton or MOTU to look into this, rewire is deprecated, it's 100% unsupported software at this point. There's no hyperbole here, if it works for you great, but it's on it's way out, we're seeing that with issues related to DP11.01.

[mikehalloran]

None of that matters. It’s not supported by propellarheads any more and could be subject to all manner of software compatibility issues, with or without silicon Mac. Motu tech support already basically tried to shame me for using rewire even though I wasn’t even trying to use rewire, telling me specifically that rewire is not supported any more and apparently not by them either, and also apparently even the mere presence of the rewire drivers on the system can cause a problem in dp 11.01 which they will take no responsibility t interest in trying to solve.

And nor should they since its no longer supported by propeller heads at all, the drivers are old and if they happen to work great for you, but someday they will stop working and that’s it. Little by little all software will remove their support in any degree for rewire. If some old cogweb caliber code happens to still be lurking around and seems to still work for some people ok fine but as more people have issues with it, especially the kind of problems where the mere presence of the driver on the system causes an app to crash, then that support for an unsupported and antiquated system will be summarily removed, you can count on that.

In my view motu should remove it entirely right now if they are not going to support it and ensure that it works properly and won’t crash dp then they should pull it out, especially if their point of view is apparently that we should not be trying to use it. If that is their point of view, then take it out so that dp doesn’t crash.

Any of you using it on the last remaining fumes, enjoy yourselves, not sure why it causes some of us to crash and not some others but that can easily be something as simple as the rewire driver version or some other simple thing that nobody is going to figure out. So enjoy that it works but start looking for another solution because no matter what rewire is going away, whether you like it or not. And as long as it is at least sometimes causing dp to crash, motu should eradicate it completely for reasons of stability, and I am confident they will, sooner or later.

There's a lot of misunderstanding here, apparently complicated by whomever you talked to at MOTU Support's lack of knowledge on the subject. If DP has ever supported Rewire, that's news to me—news to MOTU Engineering, too, I bet. DP doesn't have to support it because CoreAudio supports Rewire as explained in the DP manual. For that reason, DP for Windows has never been able to use it.

MOTU can't eradicate it completely because DP has never installed any RW components and Apple Apps do.

I'm betting that, because current versions of Logic Pro X, MainStage, GarageBand, Finale and Notion have installed Rewire components on my system, it does not crash.

So, MOTU created this mess; they need to fix it. They also need to tell Support that GarageBand installs Rewire with the MacOS. In the mean time…

If I were having this issue, I would use Find Any File or EasyFind and remove all Rewire components. Then I would reinstall whichever of these you have: Logic Pro X, MainStage, GarageBand. If you use Sibelius, Finale or Notion, reinstall those, too. I bet the problem goes away.

EasyFind requires Indexing to be turned on and completed before it can locate anything. Find Any File does not and can find files in fresh installations and downloads.

[dewdman42]

There is no misunderstanding, I am telling you what MOTU told me.

Where do you get your information that CoreAudio has rewire built into it and that's the only reason DP has to crash because of rewire malware that might be installed? I do not believe for one second that MOTU could not eliminate the crashing from happening or stop rewire from being used. That is on MOTU's task list..nobody else.

[dewdman42]

Looks like Live Lite 10 can be upgraded to Live Lite 11, for free. Hopefully that should at least eliminate Ableton from automatically reinstalling Rewire malware when Live Lite 11 is launched.

Ableton Live has completely disabled rewire in Live 11, hopefully that includes Live Lite 11...I don't see why it wouldn't.

here is Ableton's position on the matter: https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... other-DAWs

[dewdman42]

So, MOTU created this mess; they need to fix it. They also need to tell Support that GarageBand installs Rewire with the MacOS.

Is that true? If so then I need to remove the GarageBand malware too!

But I think Ableton was able to disable Rewire in Live 11, so MOTU should be able to do it in DP11 too...

I did find that simply removing /Library/Application Support/Propellerheads/ was enough to let DP11.01 start up without crashing.

[mikehalloran]

There is no misunderstanding, I am telling you what MOTU told me.

And I told you they're wrong. What's your point?

Where do you get your information that CoreAudio has rewire built into it and that's the only reason DP has to crash because of rewire malware that might be installed?

Not what I wrote.

I said that CoreAudio supports Rewire and that you can read about it in the DP manual. DP talks to CoreAudio which communicates with Rewire—that's how it works but on a Mac only. If DP supported RW directly, it would also work over Windows and it doesn't. I also wrote that Garageband, Logic Pro X and MainStage all install Rewire components — and they do. I know this because I found them and their installation paths.

Your insistence that Rewire is somehow malware is nonsense. Probably old code in the wrong place like old versions of Soundflower that make Macs crash — or not. I neither know nor care. If it is old code in the wrong place, then I've told you and anyone else how to remove it and reinstall the current versions of apps that will install Rewire components whether used or not.

I do not believe for one second that MOTU could not eliminate the crashing from happening or stop rewire from being used. That is on MOTU's task list..nobody else.

I do agree with you that there's a conflict with something somewhere and that, since it arrived with DP 11.01, MOTU absolutely needs to fix it. Once again: MOTU doesn't use Rewire and I don't know that it ever has.

[dewdman42]

as usual Mike you are just arguing for the sake of arguing and accomplishing nothing useful other than praising yourself. its why you still remain on my block list even though I occasionally can't help myself from clicking the little reveal button to find out what what you said, usually regretting it.

I am not interested in tit for tat arguments about what words you or I said.

what I am saying:

is that MOTU does not support Rewire

propelleerheads does not support Rewire

Ableton does not support Rewire and they have disabled it in Live 11.

DP 11.01 crashes for some people including myself if the Rewire drivers are present.

Removing the Propellerheads application support folder stops DP11.01 from crashing

upgrading Live Lite 10 to v11, should stop Live Lite from automatically reinstalling the Propellerheads malware.

MOTU could fix DP 11.02 so that it does not crash due to this rewire malware...sorry you don't like my funny use of the term, I think you know what I'm really trying to say as do Many others. Rewire causes DP 11.01 to crash, so I'm gonna call it malware, too bad for you.

[mikehalloran]

Believe what you want. I looked this up and did research thinking you actually wanted help.

I keep forgetting that it's you. My mistake.

[dewdman42]

as stated I already solved the problem several days ago and posted the solution. The only other desire is for MOTU to make DP more resilient to this malware.

[dewdman42]

I can confirm that after upgrade Live Lite 10 to Live Lite 11 (free ugprade), the malware is no longer being automatically installed....so hopefully that should be the end of rewire crashing.

[Michael Canavan]

Mike you're wrong about this one. Rewire is a third party application. Core Audio and MIDI support rewire as in rewire can tap into them, but the DAW itself 100% does have to support rewire. Core Audio and Core MIDI are not automatically using rewire, they're sending MIDI and audio to a Reason driver/code etc. that uses rewire. MOTU probably already knew rewire was on the way out, so they didn't bother messing with ASIO etc. on Windows to get rewire into DP on windows.

It's pretty strait forward. Reason is not supporting rewire. The DAW made by the people that came up with and maintained rewire does not support rewire. It's not being maintained, and it uses drivers. Logic and many other programs would automatically instal rewire, but that's not any indication that DP is tapping into Core Audio and MIDI's ability to use rewire without drivers. MOTU simply didn't see the point of installing third party rewire, if you happened to have two DAWs that don't automatically install rewire it was on the Propellerheads/Reason Studio site. There isn't any way DP could use rewire without app drivers for rewire installed.

Like most third party solutions, there are DAWs that can't just use the software and need to have their own tweaked driver, this applies all the time to most DAWs. Fortunately DP hardly ever has to have anything tweaked for it. VEP uses MAS, but MAS isn't a "tweak", it's a better format for most everything than AU or VST.

Bitwig never used rewire, the developers called it ancient code 7 years ago, and it is, it's from maybe 2001. I thought that was a real over-site but they knew something I didn't apparently.

[Michael Canavan]

I can confirm that after upgrade Live Lite 10 to Live Lite 11 (free ugprade), the malware is no longer being automatically installed....so hopefully that should be the end of rewire crashing.

to be fair, it's deprecated code. Like NI Kore there are people that somehow manage to use it after it stopped being developed years ago, but for me, it seemed like every plug in I owned crashed it.

I'm not getting crashes from it being installed, so I'll keep it around, but first sign of trouble and it's gone.

[mikehalloran]

Mike you're wrong about this one

DP communicates with Rewire through CoreAudio. If it supported RW directly, it would work over Windows. It doesn't according to the DP manual.

How many ways must I rewrite that?