MOTUnation.com

mikehalloran wrote: There is a setting in Yosemite that can prevent 3rd party apps from sending crash reports. It can be turned off and on.

Security>Firewall Allow incoming connections?

Security>Firewall Allow incoming connections?

No

Security>Privacy>Diagnostics & Usage Share crash data with app developers

Is it checked or unchecked? If checked, I don't know how other firewall settings or Lil Snitch may affect this.

https://support.apple.com/kb/PH18763?locale=en_US

I think there is still a sensitivity here about posting that comes across like "I just switched from Digidaw to DP. Good riddance. Now, how do I make DP work just like Digidaw?" A posting might not be meant that way, but it can be taken that way. This, along with James' clear intolerance for the forum becoming a MOTU bashing tool, can create a certain tone for some new members who might be used to some other forums.

The fine line is bashing v. criticism. Curtis should be well founded with the intent of getting it fixed. I know I'm guilty of being particularly "harsh" when an app (any app) gets in the way of contracted work on a tight deadline. I call that "venting" and while it makes the venter (ventor? sic? improper use?) feel good, it also serves to make them (in this case me) look like an ass. Been there; got the boxer shorts. LOL.

James often asks us to "keep it positive" and I think that is kind of what he means. Vent, but don't let you kettle boil over and turn off the gas. My stove is an effen mess!

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:I call that "venting" and while it makes the venter (ventor? sic? improper use?) feel good...

Tee hee, I think it's ventor as opposed to ventee.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:... it also serves to make them (in this case me) look like an ass. Been there; got the boxer shorts.

Holey shorts, Batman! You vented a hole in 'em is all, Magilla.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:James often asks us to "keep it positive" and I think that is kind of what he means. Vent, but don't let you kettle boil over and turn off the gas. My stove is an effen mess!

Ha ha ha. The visual is priceless, gorilla-man.

bayswater wrote:I think there is still a sensitivity here about posting that comes across like "I just switched from Digidaw to DP. Good riddance. Now, how do I make DP work just like Digidaw?" A posting might not be meant that way, but it can be taken that way. This, along with James' clear intolerance for the forum becoming a MOTU bashing tool, can create a certain tone for some new members who might be used to some other forums.

Yes! Summed it up nicely, Baysey.

Robert Randolph wrote:

monkey man wrote:

musicman691 wrote:It's just that if anyone posts anything even slightly critical about DP you can expect get the reaction you did. Or worse.

Mate, this is just plain unfair. It's just not that sort of forum. Really. I know you've been here on and off over the years, and, trying to see it from your point of view, I can only surmise that your description is borne out of... your experience. Fortunately, that isn't the norm. Unfortunately for you, it might well have been. If this is the case, on behalf of everyone here, I'm truly sorry.

To be fair, I used to agree with musicman1961, and if you try to talk about motunation on most any other forum, the general consensus also tends to agree. It's a running joke on a few forums I visit (GS, vi-control, tapeop, kvr) that DP is great.. just don't visit motunation.

Right now, I quite enjoy motunation, but there have been a lot of rough spots in the past where the overall tone was quite unfriendly to newcomers or people that were rightfully critical of DP. It's been a lot better in the last year, but for some the lingering memories still remain.

edit: It was difficult to write this post without sounding like I'm trying to deride members of the forum or the forum's usefulness. Currently motunation is great, but there are many, many people who do not feel that way based on past experiences (including myself until recently).

edit 2: I just want to be double-extra clear that in the last ~1 year, this has been one of the best DAW forums out there.

I totally hear you, Robert... or should that be, "I hear you totally?". I, and I'm sure we, appreciate your not wanting to "stomp" on anyone's toes.

As far as your observation of the "general consensus" out there is concerned, well, I believe it's a carry-over from the days of the Big Blue Lounge. The forum and James in particular copped a huge amount of (IMHO) unfair criticism. Much of it centred around what was framed as a lack of freedom of speech. This judgement, I believe, arouse out of a misunderstanding of James' philosophy of not allowing political and religious discussion. Somehow this was extrapolated to his being a tyrant, the gestapo, if you will. However, as things broke down time and again over there, UnicorNation's little engine kept on put put putting away happily towards today. BBL is no more, and yet, contrary to its myriad predictions of our imminent demise, here we are in all our "censored" glory, the same place, the same attitude and the same friendly, patient (generally, ignoring MLC for the moment LOL), helpful, understanding folks and dare I say it, the same emperor.

I s'pose what I'm saying is that it's easy to keep a fire burning. A little fuel here, a little there, and the established baseline assumption lives (and is passed) on. I'd like to think that this is what's occurred out there on the 'net at M'Nation's expense. The reality 'though, IMHO, is far removed from this urban myth, which is what I'd term it. Heck, if you wanna see a clique of fanbois in action, try taking a gander at the Fractal (AxeFX) forum. I'm sure you understand what I'm getting at at any rate.

Kudos to you, Robert, for having given us a chance, for withholding judgement sufficiently to have enabled you to take a larger picture into account and therefore come to what seems like a more reasonable conclusion than someone who might bite, taste something bitter in his mouth and then scream blue murder and run.

The short story: Thank you, mate, for hangin' with us. See you on the hustings.
Nicky

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:I certainly can't argue with that. My biggest issue with DP isn't DP itself, per se, but with how "intolerant" it is with errors from plugs, bad headers in sound files, and even the OS. Often enough, this results in (at best) instant crashes and (at worst) damaged project files that are unrecoverable. Yes, THAT is clearly intolerable for the users and has bit many (if not most) in the butt more than once.

Aaah... the ol' mysterious crash caused by things so innocuous one can't track 'em down. Nice one, Magilla.

Funny, I was going to mention this last week but it wasn't a big deal so I let it go. It's relevant to your point 'though, so here goes:
I needed to convert a couple thousand super-small cabinet IRs from WAV files of various SRs and bit depths to 16 and 24 bit 44.1KHz WAV files. Simple SR and bit depth conversions, you'd think. DP crashed time and again, even when attempting batches as small as half a dozen IRs. I'd disable all audio tracks and routing completely; there was literally no load except for the conversion process itself. No dice.

So, I switched to the free Audacity, my only other audio app. All I had to do was drag the files onto the main window, select 44.1k from the "Project SR" pop-up on the lower left-hand side, choose "Export Multiple" from the file menu, designate a destination folder and hit the "export" button. Viola! Done. 4 mouse clicks. To be fair, I had to choose the bit depth first in the "options" menu of the export window, but this was a once-only affair; the setting is retained 'till you change it.

I remember thinking that it'd have been so very embarrassing had anyone been sitting here with me - a 2-bit(!) free app accomplishing with 4 mouse clicks what DP, my behemoth, my beloved, uber-expensive collection of 1s and 0s tripped itself up over. Funny, head-shakingly ridiculous, and... a good example of what you're talking about here, I think.

musicman691 wrote:You mention that 'such and such sucks and DP is behind the times' doesn't get much traction here and that most of the posters here get work done and feel good about DP. That may be true but to me it also makes it seem like the community here isn't open to criticism or to suggestions that would make DP a more logical program to use.
I try and talk-up DP over on the DUC but at the same time I feel I should be able to point out things I feel could be improved. If that offends some then what can I say?

All I can say is that 90% of the threads here are filled with criticisms of DP, to which we respond with agreement, positive suggestions, even a link to the MOTU suggestion box. Sometimes I turn posts like that into tips for the tips sheet. Your assertion that the community here isn't open to criticism just falls flat, Jack. DP has been built on suggestions from users, and this forum has been one of the major tributaries to that stream.

I've read about DP in the DUC forum (odd place), and the misinformation there is just rampant. So, which is better? DUC, where you're free to say anything you want about DP — true or not, or MOTUNation, where we try to discourage the comments that most of us would agree are inaccurate, trolling, or fanning flames while just releasing steam?

It's not about freedom. You've got the whole internet to run DP into the ground if you want. It's about accuracy. Once you show us that a problem is real, NOBODY here denies it. We all jump on the bandwagon, in fact. I've made countless posts of the "Really, MOTU?" variety. But there's one thing that almost every user here knows; when you get an answer here, it's nearly always the right one, and if it's not, it usually comes with a qualifier like "not sure, but try this..." How many support forums bear that kind of record?

Go to DUC, Gearslutz, and dozens of other forums out there to wade through the muck and sling it freely. Come here when you've got a question. Frankly, I've seen a lot of people here criticize James, personally, with vehemence and threatening tones, and I've thought that they ought to be deleted for the disrespect they've shown. James almost never deletes them. He may move them to the off-topic forum, where they should have put it to begin with, but you have to show supreme, repeated disrespect for the cardinal rules here — no politics, religion or racism — to get yourself booted. MOTUNation's reputation at DUC and Gearslutz is freely exaggerated.

One last thing: it's ironic that I'm the one debating this. Over the years I've been one of the ones who usually try to smooth over the hurt feelings caused by some of our more caustic members (who I like and respect, btw) who may be outspoken about the more critical posts. I often make long posts that describe the methods of working in DP in response to "DP doesn't do it like Logic," because if you come here wanting DP to do it like Logic, you've missed the whole point of using DP. I try to teach people what windows to use, some of the tricks of using them, and how to organize a workflow so that you don't need (or want) DP to work like Logic or the others. I own Logic. I have owned Pro Tools native. I've got demos of a dozen others. If I wanted a DAW that worked like any of them, I'd use that DAW. DP works with a certain fence-free philosophy, but with many options within that philosophy. When you learn those ways, you are more likely to think it's a good way to work, though of course any DAW can use improvement, including DP. But we want to improve DP in its own way, not make it like Logic.

My opinions; not necessarily those of anyone else here, despite my use of the collective "we."

Shoosh

There are caustic members here??? Lol.

Shooshie wrote:

musicman691 wrote:You mention that 'such and such sucks and DP is behind the times' doesn't get much traction here and that most of the posters here get work done and feel good about DP. That may be true but to me it also makes it seem like the community here isn't open to criticism or to suggestions that would make DP a more logical program to use.
I try and talk-up DP over on the DUC but at the same time I feel I should be able to point out things I feel could be improved. If that offends some then what can I say?

All I can say is that 90% of the threads here are filled with criticisms of DP, to which we respond with agreement, positive suggestions, even a link to the MOTU suggestion box. Sometimes I turn posts like that into tips for the tips sheet. Your assertion that the community here isn't open to criticism just falls flat, Jack. DP has been built on suggestions from users, and this forum has been one of the major tributaries to that stream.

I've read about DP in the DUC forum (odd place), and the misinformation there is just rampant. So, which is better? DUC, where you're free to say anything you want about DP — true or not, or MOTUNation, where we try to discourage the comments that most of us would agree are inaccurate, trolling, or fanning flames while just releasing steam?

It's not about freedom. You've got the whole internet to run DP into the ground if you want. It's about accuracy. Once you show us that a problem is real, NOBODY here denies it. We all jump on the bandwagon, in fact. I've made countless posts of the "Really, MOTU?" variety. But there's one thing that almost every user here knows; when you get an answer here, it's nearly always the right one, and if it's not, it usually comes with a qualifier like "not sure, but try this..." How many support forums bear that kind of record?

Go to DUC, Gearslutz, and dozens of other forums out there to wade through the muck and sling it freely. Come here when you've got a question. Frankly, I've seen a lot of people here criticize James, personally, with vehemence and threatening tones, and I've thought that they ought to be deleted for the disrespect they've shown. James almost never deletes them. He may move them to the off-topic forum, where they should have put it to begin with, but you have to show supreme, repeated disrespect for the cardinal rules here — no politics, religion or racism — to get yourself booted. MOTUNation's reputation at DUC and Gearslutz is freely exaggerated.

One last thing: it's ironic that I'm the one debating this. Over the years I've been one of the ones who usually try to smooth over the hurt feelings caused by some of our more caustic members (who I like and respect, btw) who may be outspoken about the more critical posts. I often make long posts that describe the methods of working in DP in response to "DP doesn't do it like Logic," because if you come here wanting DP to do it like Logic, you've missed the whole point of using DP. I try to teach people what windows to use, some of the tricks of using them, and how to organize a workflow so that you don't need (or want) DP to work like Logic or the others. I own Logic. I have owned Pro Tools native. I've got demos of a dozen others. If I wanted a DAW that worked like any of them, I'd use that DAW. DP works with a certain fence-free philosophy, but with many options within that philosophy. When you learn those ways, you are more likely to think it's a good way to work, though of course any DAW can use improvement, including DP. But we want to improve DP in its own way, not make it like Logic.

My opinions; not necessarily those of anyone else here, despite my use of the collective "we."

Shoosh

Damn and dang. On everyone's behalf...

What he said!

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:There are caustic members here??? Lol.

Well, you've been known to cause a tick, Magilla. LOL

Moi?

Naaa... you wouldn't hurt a flea.

You'd cause a tick, but wouldn't hurt a flea.

monkey man wrote:

musicman691 wrote:It's just that if anyone posts anything even slightly critical about DP you can expect get the reaction you did. Or worse.

Mate, this is just plain unfair. It's just not that sort of forum. Really. I know you've been here on and off over the years, and, trying to see it from your point of view, I can only surmise that your description is borne out of... your experience. Fortunately, that isn't the norm. Unfortunately for you, it might well have been. If this is the case, on behalf of everyone here, I'm truly sorry.

Please, if you're able, try to wipe the slate clean and postpone your reassessment for now.

musicman691 wrote:And as far as getting non-public info about DP9 you'll not get anything serious from anyone here. Maybe a round of derision for asking the question but that's about it.

No derision here. In fact, I've just deleted a paragraph I posted to disprove the efficacy of your hyperbolic assertion. So I suppose you're right. But wait...

The ONLY REASON I deleted the momentous (yes, for many it will be) news about DP9, is that when I stated at the end of it that I'd already broken a promise by posting it, and that my word is and has always been my bond, I couldn't bear to submit it. So you see, even sans NDA-imposed limits, there's an integrity here on the forum that, whilst semi-rare on the 'net, is nevertheless maintained by my esteemed colleagues.

This fact further serves to illustrate why we might appear to you to be "touchy" or over-sensitive. The explanation's simple. We, collectively and individually, have a conscience.

I hope you don't think I'm patronising you, Jack; I'm not. At least, that's not my intention. For most here, I've been preaching to the choir, but knowing you felt this way doesn't sit well with me and I therefore felt it necessary, to satisfy my conscience at least, to reiterate the facts about our demeanour in this forum as I see them. Take care, mate.
Nicky

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:

Right back at ya, bro'.

It's cool Nicky. I know your integrity from years past and it's most welcome - never wanted you or anyone to even come close to breaking an NDA. And you're not being patronising either but most level-headed and honest and that's appreciated. Believe me when I say I never wanted to get into personality issues here it's just that even with the best of intentions I can slip. All I ask for and expect are straight answers to straight questions.

Yes! Perfectly reasonable, mate. Thank you, by the way Jack, for your kind words.

Well, I can only only hope that you're able to receive that which you desire, mate. It's not like you're expecting too much. Everybody deserves that.

Probably best to not let the odd whiff of causticity colour your overall experience or judgement thereof too much. If someone gets way out of line, he or she's gonna be reigned in anyway, so it's really not ever going to be that bad, at worst.

Anyway, all the best Jack,
Nicky

Well, that discussion went well.

Now howabout them instruments in DP?