MOTUnation.com

Posted: **Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:32 pm**

mhschmieder wrote:Are you certain about that, Carlos? I thought it was an issue a few years ago, until I noticed it had to do with offsets more than 9.9 dB, where you lose one decimal place of precision. It seems DP stores the same resolution but doesn't display it at that point, so it remembers the original offset if you then move back across the magic 10.0 dB marker.

I started using trim plug-ins to avoid ever having to attenuate a track by more than 9 dB or so during stem mixing.

Yes. Basically it comes down to this as far as I can tell. If you try to nudge up your grouped faders beyond the point they were at when the group was initially created the relative level offsets between them start to compress. Lowering levels doesn't seem to present the problem.
So, if your nudging faders to try and find the sweet spot of some drum channels say, before you have written automation, this becomes an issue. Especially if the individual channels are not being routed to a common output where a group fader could be used.

Carlos

Posted: **Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:43 pm**

Tritonemusic wrote:
BKK-OZ wrote:
Tritonemusic wrote:I noticed that the "Project Notepad" screenshot in the link provided earlier, has a note that says, "Buy Rolling Papers." I must say, this update is off to a good start.
Ha!

I think that the notepad thing is a great feature - I am forever trying out various ways of making notes to myself about my various DP sessions (longish track names as descriptors, etc.) but this will make it a lot easier.
+1, BKK.

and never, ever, forget the rolling papers!

Posted: **Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:18 pm**

billf wrote: With this and Spectrasonics 2, spring is going to be fun!

That's what I said to Lisa. My birthday is May 24... happy happy to me! (crossing fingers for mid-May.)

Posted: **Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:25 pm**

I just hope they never go to the Avid/PT pricing structure. The way MOTU does it is PERFECT. I was just reading a thread at gearslutz about the new PT 12 update and their users are pissed. It is a good time for DP to step up marketing and pick up some of that business.

Posted: **Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:29 pm**

Tritonemusic wrote:
BKK-OZ wrote:
Tritonemusic wrote:I noticed that the "Project Notepad" screenshot in the link provided earlier, has a note that says, "Buy Rolling Papers." I must say, this update is off to a good start.
Ha!

I think that the notepad thing is a great feature - I am forever trying out various ways of making notes to myself about my various DP sessions (longish track names as descriptors, etc.) but this will make it a lot easier.
+1, BKK.

You know if you're not using the Lyrics part of the notation you could always use that for notes right? It's what I've done if I wanted notes in DP directly, and I'm sort of surprised it's a feature.

Posted: **Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:42 pm**

Most of the work I do requires me to have DP's relative grid snap as the MAIN way it snaps. Otherwise you drag some group of notes or soundbites and will it move your audio away from where you wanted it? Will it snap fronts? edges? splits? Just making a major •••• mess of it all?

For MIDI, I almost always have phrases that are not exactly on-grid but they are perfect. I just need to move them from one location to another while preserving their glorious and/or quirky rhythm.

If I want to quantize, I can either insert one in the mixer, or execute the command which is pretty quick. I wouldn't mind having a few quick quantize things at different grid values (perhaps that's something I can rig in clippings).

Still, I would not at all mind if a modifier key made the grid snap absolute. However, it already bugs me that I have to use a modifier EVERY time I make a selection, so it would bug me more if I had to press a mod key to drag in relative mode.

The solution is of course for it to have it all handled in preferences.

Posted: **Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:17 pm**

Michael Canavan wrote:You know if you're not using the Lyrics part of the notation you could always use that for notes right? It's what I've done if I wanted notes in DP directly, and I'm sort of surprised it's a feature.

Now I do, thanks.

Posted: **Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:33 pm**

stubbsonic wrote:Most of the work I do requires me to have DP's relative grid snap as the MAIN way it snaps. Otherwise you drag some group of notes or soundbites and will it move your audio away from where you wanted it? Will it snap fronts? edges? splits? Just making a major •••• mess of it all?

For MIDI, I almost always have phrases that are not exactly on-grid but they are perfect. I just need to move them from one location to another while preserving their glorious and/or quirky rhythm.

If I want to quantize, I can either insert one in the mixer, or execute the command which is pretty quick. I wouldn't mind having a few quick quantize things at different grid values (perhaps that's something I can rig in clippings).

Still, I would not at all mind if a modifier key made the grid snap absolute. However, it already bugs me that I have to use a modifier EVERY time I make a selection, so it would bug me more if I had to press a mod key to drag in relative mode.

The solution is of course for it to have it all handled in preferences.

I agree with this, and even though I SORELY want absolute grid, I would be just as disappointed if the relative mode disappeared.

Having read your post though made me realize that I'd be just as happy if I could have key commands for each quantization 'size' AND direction. The most annoying thing about using quantize is that often you want it to move in a different direction than the algorithm decides. This is where the real issues come in. It only takes one time for quantize to not work as you want it to, for you to end up spending 5 minutes on an editing operation that would have only taken half of a second in literally any other daw that exists with a grid.

Honestly though, the capability to use an absolute grid already exists! When you first import a file, it works that way. When you're in the track's window it works that way. It really should not be that difficult.

Posted: **Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:45 pm**

Michael Canavan wrote:
Tritonemusic wrote:
BKK-OZ wrote:Ha!

I think that the notepad thing is a great feature - I am forever trying out various ways of making notes to myself about my various DP sessions (longish track names as descriptors, etc.) but this will make it a lot easier.
+1, BKK.
You know if you're not using the Lyrics part of the notation you could always use that for notes right? It's what I've done if I wanted notes in DP directly, and I'm sort of surprised it's a feature.

Yes, I've actually done that before. But, I like the way this new feature looks.

Posted: **Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:21 pm**

mhschmieder wrote:Near-infinitessimal editing resolution in all modes for Sequence View would be great -- I simply haven't had time to dig deep enough to see if it is my ignorance at work, or a "missing feature".

It is the one thing that has had me thinking of maybe getting a version of PT for occasional detailed work, but I've found workarounds that are producing seamless results so can live without it for a bit longer.

I'm not certain what you are looking for that isn't there. By setting Nudge to its finest resolution (I think it defaults to .0020" -- way too coarse for me) and Snap to Grid off (temporarily or default), I find seamless edits to be no problem at all. I have to be in a real hurry to use a Fade on a straight edit (and then I go back and do 'em right later).

Page 317 in the DP 8 User Guide is your best friend here. The defaults, settings and where you find them changed quite a bit between DP 5 and 8.

Posted: **Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:49 pm**

Wow, I never knew about that feature. I had read the entire Sequencer Editor chapter several times, but it didn't occur to me it would be hidden in the Information Windows (which took me awhile to locate in the GUI).

I think some of that might have been in Preferences before, and re-defaulted when DP8 installed, because I know I had Snap to Grid turned off at one point and had also set a Nudge amount.

Although my screen is not matching what I see in the User Manual in some instances, I have enough to work with now so that I don't have to keep using my multi-pass workaround technique anymore.

Actually, the way all this stuff is presented now (including the Time Formats window, which I also don't remember seeing before but which seems to augment/expand a feature I was familiar with earlier and couldn't find when I installed DP8), is way more flexible than before, which is great, as I will often need to switch modes of usage back and forth even during the course of specific edits.

No need to download PT after all.

Posted: **Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:11 am**

Phew... that's a relief, Mark; you had me worried there, bro'.

To all and sundry:

I had my attempted sleep, did the house cleaning and still no MD-presentation video to drool over? Wassup wit dat?

Yours in hankering, champing anti-piss-i-poo-tion...

Posted: **Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:48 am**

I don't want to get this topic off-track; it was the mention of "absolute grid" that triggered my response, as I had meant to ask long ago about finer-grained editing (and other grid choices) but had intended to spend more time on it myself before bugging the community.

Both my day job and my work on this recording project have kept me too busy lately -- things are only just now starting to lighten up; primarily because I have a phenomenal new boss who, by the way, worked at Opcode back in the early 90's.

Up until this current project, I haven't done much digital production work outside of MIDI; I have focused primarily on gigging, improving my chops as a player, writing and arranging (especially), and mostly quick-and-temporary mixes and masters for mock-ups and/or live theatrical productions as well as trailers, jingles, etc. So I'm only just now having to start doing the sorts of audio (vs. MIDI) editing that most of you REAL pros have been doing for years.

Posted: **Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:08 am**

Babz wrote:Absolute Grid Snapping is actually just grid snapping period.

For years I was confused why I couldn't get things to snap to a grid. There's this box to turn on grid snapping and the Command key to drag free of the grid. So why doesn't it actually work? I started hearing Logic users use the term "Absolute Grid Snapping" and it finally dawned on me. DP doesn't really have grid snapping! It has this "relative/smart whatever" but not just plain old basic grid snapping.

If you drag in some audio, it will snap to the grid. But ONLY this first time. So you sort of have grid snapping. You are deceived into thinking it is actually there. But if you nudge it off the grid, you can never get it to snap to the grid again. You have to zoom way in and line things up with the bar one nudge at a time. Totally infuriating!

It is a total embarrassment that DP doesn't have this basic feature. The term "Absolute Grid Snapping" comes from Logic. But really it is just plain Grid Snapping, and we need it like YESTERDAY. Not having real grid snapping, is like not having quantizing or some other really basic feature.

If DP adds this feature it is hardly something you will see them brag about. It's more one of those things they will slip in quietly. But it would make a HUGE difference for my daily workflow.

Babz

100% this.

why should this even be a thing to talk about?
it should have this basic functionality.
everyone can say... 'well i do this...' and 'doesn't matter cuz i need this...'
but this 'absolute grid snapping' is kind of default and should be available. it's kinda bizarre that DP does not do this. in my life, it matters very little. i have been having a wonderful time with DP8, and with grid snapping, i find my way around it the times i have to. but that does not mean it's not entirely insane that DP does not have this functionality.

i'm not joking. it is ridiculously insane.

and like i said... i love DP, i love DP8, i am a happy user. love the hell out of it, happy as a goddam clam. gonna buy DP9 too. cuz i've poked around amongst other things, and all other DAW's suck compared to DP is all i have to say. and in the last two years i have tried basically all of them. i use Live but don't think of it as a DAW really. it's like an instrument host to me.

i actually don't care if they change it, but it's just hard to see people acting like this is not something that is glaringly weird about Digital Performer.

Posted: **Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:51 am**

mhschmieder wrote: I think some of that might have been in Preferences before, and re-defaulted when DP8 installed, because I know I had Snap to Grid turned off at one point and had also set a Nudge amount...

You are correct. The Preferences I had set in DP 4 or 5 carried through to 7 but not 8. Why? Because it is now somewhere else.

I went nuts trying to figure it out in DP 8. ("seamless editing used to be easy! now it's a pain... what the...?")

Were it not for the User Guide being a searchable pdf file, I don't know that I would have found it on my own (Nudge is found on 18 pages). To me, being able to search the manual was one of the best new features of DP 8.

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