MOTUnation.com

Just in case you guys were wondering ....

I have presets made in the Audio Interface mixer as well as my Digital mixer for easy recall
as I do this very often.

Blessings,
PhireAlly

Cool, thanks PhireAlly!

The ability to control the volume the Mac sends to the box is all about having flexibility to use the tools the way you want to use them and not "the way" the mfg says it's supposed to be.



This "other way" some are working (accepting what the Mac sends out as the "standard") is too limiting for my purposes in general. Notwithstanding corrupted Audio and MIDI drivers on uninstall, my ONLY reason for returning the box was the lack of that one feature - control of the Mac in the box.

It is not as unreasonable a position as some have suggested. I very much appreciate those who have provided examples of how they also rely on this feature. I also appreciate all who have contributed and tolerated my blind passion for this simple thing. Yes, it is a simple thing, isn't it? Or as was posted yesterday:

1nput0utput wrote: Only the simplest audio devices use the system volume.

And the implication here is what? That simple is a bad thing? I certainly don't agree with that.

Is there something inherently wrong with using the system volume?

Sure, I'd prefer to reach for the Mac keyboard mute to kill the audio when the phone rings, and big knobs sound like a lot of fun to me, but not in the studio per se. Just the little button when the phone rings, thank you, or the up/down volume buttons for the likes of iTunes, YouTube, whatever else I want to attenuate quickly. Indeed, that is simple.

As in music, sacrificing simplicity just for the sake of complexity is really just a lot of noise, IMO. I'll take simple every time.

1nput0utput wrote:You're just wishing that the device does things that it wasn't designed to do.

Yes, you are correct there. Not wishing that "devices" could do that, but that this device could do it at least as well as several other devices have for me and others - and in high end expensive units as well as the $300 units some of us throw our money at. Again, complexity for its own sake isn't necessarily the best choice. Not in orchestration and not in building widgets. Function above form and not the other way around.

I see the interface functioning as a mixer. It brings sound in and I control the level. It sends sound out and I control the level. It takes sound from my Mac... and it controls the level? That's not simple in my mind, that's simpleminded.

In 1endOut the other without so much as a thought. Homey don't play that way.

Hey kids! look what came in the mail from Sweetwater:

Check out the software control section... they even feature a MOTU device at the top of the page! Sweet, indeed.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Sure, I'd prefer to reach for the Mac keyboard mute to kill the audio when the phone rings, and big knobs sound like a lot of fun to me, but not in the studio per se. Just the little button when the phone rings, thank you...

Kinda like the little "Mute" button on my Central Station Remote that's just to the right of my mouse? Of course, that's a different issue. From what I gather you want a more flexible software control panel. Sounds like a software/driver solution and not really a hardware thing, right?

Yeah, James, it seems like a fairly easy software addition and if MOTU added that I'd buy that box again for even a couple of hundred more. It really is perfect and has all the right features. Didn't get to play much but what I did see I like very much. Bigger knobs might be nice too, but there's a lot to be said for small ones...

Well hopefully MOTU might see this thread and comment on the likelihood of coming up with a more robust software control panel in the future.

I'm in no hurry. I can wait a little longer...

I have read this entire thread and I see a solution that is so easy
for you, MLC, that I am amazed it has not been mentioned.

You have a hardware mixer, right? Here's what you do:

1. Aux sends 1 and 2 go from the mixer to the audio inputs on your
interface (MOTU, or whatever).
2. Analog audio outputs from the interface go to STEREO IN on
your mixer. Don't turn up the aux send on this stereo in or you'll
have a feedback loop.
3. Control room outs from your mixer go to the inputs on your
speakers (assuming they are powered, or to the inputs of the power
amp feeding your speakers).

Now you can control the level of audio from your Mac with either
the level control on the mixer's stereo in, or the Control Room
output level, or the mixer's master fader(s). You don't even need
CueMix in this scenario. I have a MOTU Ultralite Hybrid for live
gigs, I used to have a MOTU 828 MK 2, and I have never used CueMix, because when set up this way, it isn't necessary.

FutureLegends wrote:
I usually only have one application making sounds at any one time (mostly it's DP). And then I can just lower the Master fader. Or the phones out fader if that's the one that's too loud.

Can you please explain when it's beneficial to lower the volume of all apps at the same time in relation to a live sound coming into the interface? How is your typical workflow when you use that function?

I try to get it, because if it's a good thing, I will send requests to MOTU for it to be incorporated in future versions. But so far I can't grasp why it would be very usefull to me.

Anytime you monitor more than 1 soft I believe it´s not only benefitial, but very benefitial. Say I´m searching for SFX or other commercial volume released wavs, while having my DP project open. Or you are checking files in a website as you upload them. Or you are doing games and you have to listen to your editor and the game soft alternatively...

Usually it´s not even a full featured mixer strip that´s needed in my case, but a simple way to attenuate those system signals. The most common use is to attenuate commercial files against my project. Then have it there. So there´s a reference level for both that remains untouched. A full featured channel strip would be better of course.

If I go the MOTU way I see no other option but to use 2 inputs in loopback so I can treat the system audio as an input. I´d rather loose two inputs than grab the volume pot so many times a day. I have a Big Knob, so it´s easy, but seems unnecesary and distracting to me after so many years having that feature in RME. That´s why I ask for alternatives from you.

For an analog analogy :Seems to me like going to a gig and having the CD plugged into the 2trck inputs of some small mixers which don´t have a pot for the 2trck, where you have to lower the master fader to play music and raise it to mix the band. It can work to check the PA, but you can´t play cues.

David Polich wrote:I have read this entire thread and I see a solution that is so easy
for you, MLC, that I am amazed it has not been mentioned.

You have a hardware mixer, right?

Thanks, David. Right, and wrong. I have a mixer. I don't necessarily want to or need to turn on the mixer when I want sound from the Mac. The speakers are connected to the FW audio device. I want to keep it that way.

In fact, I do have a line going from the Mac to the mixer for times when I want to send the Mac sound there - which is very rare. I appreciate the work around and the time and thought you put into it, it just isn't what I want to do. I often work completely in the box and don't need to turn the mixer on for many days, sometimes weeks in post. I also prefer to hear the audio as it comes out of the Mac without any possibility of the mixer coloring it in any way. In addition, the mixer, while reasonably close, is further than arms length and certainly not as convenient as a keystroke or mouse click away. For the AudioExpress it isn't even a matter of mouse clicks - the device simply does not control the Mac audio level. That makes it essentially useless to me and my workflow.

Again, bottom line for me is that FW audio devices can and do have the features I and others want and need and I will not accept a unit that doesn't have these. Your workaround would be great if there was no other option. There are still other purchase options and I am not stuck with the current version of the way MOTU and other mfgs have implemented their devices.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:… big knobs sound like a lot of fun to me, but not in the studio per se.

In the studio (or a work space that is set up to approximate a recording studio) is exactly where most people want, need, and use a monitor controller such as a Big Knob, Central Station, Level Pilot, or console master section.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Again, complexity for its own sake isn't necessarily the best choice. Not in orchestration and not in building widgets. Function above form and not the other way around.

I see the interface functioning as a mixer. It brings sound in and I control the level. It sends sound out and I control the level. It takes sound from my Mac... and it controls the level? That's not simple in my mind, that's simpleminded.

My point was never that the device should be simple or complex for its own sake, only that there are other solutions to the "problem" you've come up with. If you don't like those other solutions for whatever reason, then perhaps the Audio Express is not the right audio interface for you. But you've already come to that conclusion, so further discussion of that point is redundant and tiresome.

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:In 1endOut the other without so much as a thought.

The fact that you've resorted to insults reinforces my feeling that this thread has gone about as far as it can go. Your implication that I haven't given thought to this issue is naive. My only intention for joining this discussion was to temper your "SKY IS FALLING! ZOMG! AUDIO EXPRESS WORST INTERFACE EVER! CAN'T BELIEVE IT DOESN'T HAVE FEATURE XYZ!" attitude with my own opinions and knowledge about how MOTU devices usually work because I happen to have used a lot of them.

1nput0utput wrote:My only intention for joining this discussion was to temper your "SKY IS FALLING! ZOMG! AUDIO EXPRESS WORST INTERFACE EVER! CAN'T BELIEVE IT DOESN'T HAVE FEATURE XYZ!" attitude ...

This is where your comments start to really loose credibility. I never made those claims - perhaps you read that into my initial post and then commented that I was "wishing" for something - yadda yadda yadda. Go back and READ what I said.

You apparently took all this personally and continue to do so. No one else is doing that but you. Not me, not the tech guy at MOTU, not the other contributing members.

Please show me where I was claiming (your quote here, not mine):

1nput0utput wrote: "SKY IS FALLING! ZOMG! [sic] AUDIO EXPRESS WORST INTERFACE EVER! CAN'T BELIEVE IT DOESN'T HAVE FEATURE XYZ!""

Something of an exaggeration, don't you think? Just a bit?

And now you're moaning about a scenario that never existed and you call that "tempering"? How much deeper do you want to dig this hole for yourself?

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Yeah, James, it seems like a fairly easy software addition and if MOTU added that I'd buy that box again for even a couple of hundred more. It really is perfect and has all the right features. Didn't get to play much but what I did see I like very much. Bigger knobs might be nice too, but there's a lot to be said for small ones...

This is my biggest issue with the 828mk3, the volume knobs are too small and fiddly. Especially the headphones one whick is kinda tricky when the headphones are plugged in. Which is when you need to use it, obviously.

This is interesting to me considering i looked at getting one of these for my Macbook Pro but.... my tech guy (LUCKILY!) recommended the Apogee Duet. And i have to say i love it. I would definitely recommend it. One big knob on the device which controls everything toggling between input 1 or 2 and the Main Outs and if you push on it for 2 secs it mutes every thing.Comes with simple easy to use Maestro software that works seemlessly with DP. I love it.
And it looks so simple, neat and cool.
I like things that work. I have an 828mk2 at my studio which is a workhorse and has been reliable for a few years however..... i have been through 2 broken 828mk2's and 2 broken 828mk3's so in general my experience with MOTU hardware has been more on the negative tip. I'm considering replacing the studio 828 with another Apogee device.

Since I *still* use my 896mkIIIs for Live mixing, I wanted to remember that they have a volume knob including a push switch, that mutes everything...
I must admit, I discovered this some time *after* the purchase...
It mutes even during launch of DP
And yes, Cuemix FX should get an overhaul, including the separate saving of EQ, DYN and REV, channel ordering, and mono outputs
( yes, DP has this thru bundles )

Best

Klaus