MOTUnation.com

Reading through all the posts (good thread), I see that most
people think Lexicon wants too much money for the plug-in.

That is the bottom line. Does anyone remember Lexicon's proprietary
digital recording system? That came and went in a relative blink of
an eye.

This is just foolish marketing. It's undoubtedly a good sounding
plug-in but the Lexicon marketing people have adopted the "all we need to
sell is a few" mantra which is ALWAYS poor business sense. Without
exception.

Frankly, I like the Lexicon sound but I don't think it's "that" great,
and certainly isn't going to determine whether people like the song
I'm working on.

If they priced it at $249 they'd actually make some money. At a price point of anywhere between $1200 and $2000, Lexicon deserves to have the plug-in
cracked and available for download free.

David Polich wrote:If they priced it at $249 they'd actually make some money.

Maybe... but they do have that extra concern of whether pricing it like that will hurt their hardware sales, don't they? That's something that a software-only company doesn't have to figure into the pricing.

At a price point of anywhere between $1200 and $2000, Lexicon deserves to have the plug-in cracked and available for download free.

Ummm... nobody deserves to have their software stolen. No matter what price. However, if it's overpriced, the market will supply a verdict on that by dismal sales, causing them to re-think it. Personally, I wouldn't buy it at the introductory pricing, because like some of the others in this thread, I'd wager it will re-priced within a year after introduction to something far lower.

KEVORKIAN wrote:I could be wrong, but I seem to remember reading that Lexicon's current hardware units that sport plugin interfaces only do so for a control/recall function. Meaning the most instances you can get from them are limited to what the hardware supports and that means dual-stereo.

So looking at it from that perspective, it seems feasible that you could run many more instances of a high-end, PCM96-style, lexicon verb by grabbing the native plugin that they are now offering. A PCM96 retails for about 3k and would give you 2 instances (dual-stereo), and in that light $1500 for the native plugin would be a pretty decent deal if you can run at least 2 instances. It's possibly a fair price if you can comfortably run 4 instances.

Check the link. It's actually only retailing for a little over $2000, and I believe the FireWire support is a full-on AU/VST/etc. powered plug at up to 96 kHz (the cheaper USB units are probably only control/recall, though). Granted, it may only be dual-stereo, but for people who usually bus a hall and room reverb, anyway, I'd assume that would be plenty. Plus, it's a full-fledged high-end FX processor, not just a reverb unit, and you can also use it for situations outside of DAW or computer-only processing.

I'm certainly not dismissing the plug -- I think it's long overdue -- but at $1,500, you're limiting your customers to pro studios or people with lots of disposable income, which aren't exactly plentiful, at the moment. It's also a prestige thing; Lexicon is banking on people buying the plug because their reverb has long been heralded as THE reverb. While that may be true, and while Altiverb's IR versions may even pale in comparison, I think most people, right now, will opt for the cheaper solution.

The thing is, Lexicon's reverb is at best a synthesized algorithm. Since Altiverb's arrival, my ears have gotten spoiled to hearing actual spaces. Listening to some audio demos of the actual Lexicon unit (not the plugin) compared to Altiverb's sampled Lexicon, two things struck me:

1) There's not $1900 worth of difference between Altiverb's Lexicon and the real thing. For the most part, I couldn't hear any difference at all. Of course, I'm aware that there are settings that may dynamically alter the sound in real time, and if someone needs that, well, it's available for $1900.

2) Lexicon's sound reminds me of what I don't like about MOTU's eVerb: sort of metallic. It just sounds dated to me. Not that it's without its place; just that it no longer sits at the pinnacle of studio reverb. While I might use that kind of sound on individual tracks for one reason or another, it could never serve me as my project reverb.

Lexicon can charge what they want. If I ever need a Lexicon, I'll be happy with Altiverb's Lexicon samples or the other Lexicon simulators I somehow have access to. But generally speaking, there are just too many great IR's out there for me to be concerned one way or the other about what Lexicon decides to do with their business. The market will tell us whether they made a good or bad decision.

Armageddon wrote: Check the link. It's actually only retailing for a little over $2000, and I believe the FireWire support is a full-on AU/VST/etc. powered plug at up to 96 kHz (the cheaper USB units are probably only control/recall, though). Granted, it may only be dual-stereo, but for people who usually bus a hall and room reverb, anyway, I'd assume that would be plenty. Plus, it's a full-fledged high-end FX processor, not just a reverb unit, and you can also use it for situations outside of DAW or computer-only processing.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PCM96/

This is the link I referenced from your previous post and Sweetwater has the PCM96 at $2999.

I went to the Lexicon page and retrieved this blurb as well:

http://www.lexiconpro.com/product.php?id=147
"Designed for the modern studio, the PCM96 can function as a control-only insert or FireWire streaming audio plug-in inside Mac RTAS, VST and Audio Units software..."

Also, this is IMO, but... a full spec AU/VST plugin should only be limited only by your computer's processing power, not by the amount of inputs and outputs an external processor has. So to me this signals that the reverb processing is not being done by the computer's processor but by the Lexicon unit. In that case (and IMO) the AU is functioning as a control and recall interface more than as an effect but this is semantics really... My point is that the plugin removes this fixed limitation.

Armageddon wrote: I'm certainly not dismissing the plug -- I think it's long overdue -- but at $1,500, you're limiting your customers to pro studios or people with lots of disposable income, which aren't exactly plentiful, at the moment. It's also a prestige thing; Lexicon is banking on people buying the plug because their reverb has long been heralded as THE reverb. While that may be true, and while Altiverb's IR versions may even pale in comparison, I think most people, right now, will opt for the cheaper solution.

I agree with you (and Shooshie) here 100%.... I don't think it's going to sound 1000 (or more) dollars better to most people. I also can't justify the purchase.

Lexicon needs a Don't Crac[k] group buy here!

Y'know, this whole Lexicon reverb plug-in has made me think about native reverb plug-ins and while I love Altiverb and use it daily, I have also picked up Stillwell's Verbiage, which I like for good old gated drum efx and Redline reverb, which allows me to do some efx reverbs (although I find it's sound a little metallic at times). What I don't know about are Sonnox's reverb plug-in and IK's studio reverb plug-in- are any of you using those and finding the results pleasing- I ask as you can pick those up for a couple of hundred bucks, and again, maybe if compared to the Lexicon plug-in the differences might not be worth an extra $1,000+ . Any reviews on those 2 reverb plug-ins? I've heard raves about the UAD reverbs, but they're not native.

frankymax wrote:Y'know, this whole Lexicon reverb plug-in has made me think about native reverb plug-ins and while I love Altiverb and use it daily, I have also picked up Stillwell's Verbiage, which I like for good old gated drum efx and Redline reverb, which allows me to do some efx reverbs (although I find it's sound a little metallic at times). What I don't know about are Sonnox's reverb plug-in and IK's studio reverb plug-in- are any of you using those and finding the results pleasing- I ask as you can pick those up for a couple of hundred bucks, and again, maybe if compared to the Lexicon plug-in the differences might not be worth an extra $1,000+ . Any reviews on those 2 reverb plug-ins? I've heard raves about the UAD reverbs, but they're not native.

Add this one to your list, it's too good for the money they are asking to overlook:

http://www.galbanum.com/products/aether/

Wow! Aether looks great- do you know if it works on Tiger? I will eventually go to Snow Leopard but for now I'm still on good ol' 10.4.11 and their website says compatibility is unknown on Tiger- so is anyone out there using Aether on Tiger? This looks like a great effects-y reverb.

I grabbed the current issue of Recording from AES and it has a review of Aether in it where the reviewer was on 10.4.11. Apparently it can work but you may wish to contact them just in case.

That's great to know- I'm gonna download the demo and give it a try- I'll report back here later but in the mean time, anyone using Sonnox reverb or IK reverb bundle? Reviews?

frankymax wrote:That's great to know- I'm gonna download the demo and give it a try- I'll report back here later but in the mean time, anyone using Sonnox reverb or IK reverb bundle? Reviews?

I also have the IK Classik Studio Rerverbs (forgot to answer you about that)... I purchased them as part of their IK Singles group buy. They sound very good and are extremely useful for getting targeted verbs going quickly (a snare verb for instance). They excel in generating short tail reverb sounds and most of the presets are geared towards this. I just used them on a project for a client and I like the results. They are less organic sounding than Aether and Altiverb (of course!)

Shooshie wrote:1) There's not $1900 worth of difference between Altiverb's Lexicon and the real thing.

I don't think there can be an argument against that.

Altiverb cost me $1000, but I have SOOO many choices, in stereo and 5.1, including but not remotely limited to Lexicon. I still use TC and Lex HW reverbs some because I have a digital console and they're convenient, but I patch Altiverb into the console as well and it stands up beautifully to the hardware, sometimes kicks its ass.

Killahurts wrote:I still use TC and Lex HW reverbs some because I have a digital console and they're convenient...

I don't have a Digital Console, but I finally shut down all my outboard because of the ability plugins offer of remembering their settings. When using outboard gear, I didn't know if a knob was tweaked or whatever (digital boards would certainly help here).

The ability to open a FINISHED project and back off a gtr solo just a bit, and bounce it out again...all in a matter of minutes...is for me the main reason I let my hardware go. The subtle difference in the effect just isn't worth the ability to have my mix LOCKED IN every time I open it.

Just in case anyone cares, I tried the Aether demo on OS 10.4.11 with DP 5.1.3 and it failed AU exam (a -50 code?) so unfortunately until I get SnowLeo up and running that plug-in is not available to me. Oh well... anyone care to chime in on the Sonnox Oxford Reverb plug-in?

Well, this is not too different from things other people have said, but before this plug-in was available, I was planning on getting a PCM96. My main room has a 480 and a console, but I'm setting up a second "in the box" mix room. The 96 seemed like a great move....but I think this plug-in will be the way that I go. Although the 96 is very flexible having both analog ins/outs and also acting like a plug-in, this new plug-in will offer more instances at the same time and will save some money. I don't see a downside here. I don't need TDM, and I've got an 8 core Mac. This is perfect timing. The price doesn't bother me if it sounds great. I'd be spending more on the 96.....which may not be better just because it mounts in a rack. I'm getting more performance for less money. Also, some have complained that the Lexicon sound is not as natural as a convolution reverb. Well, true. But that's not why I buy Lexicon stuff. There is nothing like the sound of a drum kit through a 480/960/96. That's a very different sound than a convolution space. Convolution absolutely has it's place, but naturalness is not always what is needed.

Kirt Shearer
http://www.paradisestudios.net