***Meeting with Magic Dave and DP6 preview (it's cool!!)***

sebastiano · Post by **sebastiano** » Fri May 02, 2008 2:47 am

Excellent review Brad, thanks!

One question: did you have time to check if it is now finally AU 2.0-compliant?

Sounds a bit geeky I know, but it is an important feature for some of us, in that it would allow to effectively use the sidechain feature on AU compressor plugs for example, which is still not doable in DP5. I've been using Logic lately, only because I can route, say a kick to control a comp's sidechain input.

Thanks

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Fri May 02, 2008 3:23 am

Did you spot the Vintage Suite™ plugs (including guitar amp/cab sim and retro synth VIs), Brad?

Bet they were buried in one of those folders in that newly-configured plug menu...

bOing · Post by **bOing** » Fri May 02, 2008 6:14 am

monkey man wrote:Did you spot the Vintage Suite™ plugs (including guitar amp/cab sim and retro synth VIs), Brad?

Bet they were buried in one of those folders in that newly-configured plug menu...

Are you poo-flinging me or is this a real scoop? (or has the swarming not ended?)

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Fri May 02, 2008 6:42 am

LOL!

Unfortunately bOing, it's wishful thinking on my part, and not much more.
I do believe MOTU's had sufficient time since DP 5 to do a lot of work on plugs and VIs though, and when you consider that DP5 gave us 6 instruments (a ground-tester if ever I saw one), that MOTU has the sample library and technical know-how to create a ripper VI suite, as well as convolution experience which can be used in creating guitar amp/cab sims, all these things amount to an (reasonable, IMHO) expectation that there's a whole lot more to this update than one might expect.

Another possibility is that MOTU's doing its best to set the foundation with DP6 for a swathe of additions, but is willing to put 6.0 out there and service that first to ensure a rock-solid platform for the rest of the enchilada.

Logical speculation, that's all, but the time factor's only serving to heighten my expectation of said revelations.

Timeline · Post by **Timeline** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:13 am

Frodo wrote:
Timeline wrote:Hmmm. What happens if we buy the update and don't like it? I doubt that would happen but maybe that's why they are adding all the goodies, just to be sure. Just a crazy thought.
Don't buy it until you feel comfy with user reports-- especially from users whose hardware is similar to yours.

Exactly what I did with Nuendo's $400 update and I still don't have it. Spiking, erratic multicore and a host of other MAc oriented faults still keep me away. Fortunately the upgrade costs are reasonable enough with DP to just go for it.

dosuna11 · Post by **dosuna11** » Fri May 02, 2008 10:03 am

David Polich wrote:
bradswan wrote:Great to hear about the new features which I'm excited about, but if DP isn't significantly more efficient regarding processing and CPU draw, I know I'll be a bit disappointed. The rending of VI's etc will help, but I'm running into CPU issues already with my new Quad core 2.66, and I'm not really using an over abundance of plugz. My hope is that Motu is taking this time to seriously address this issue and will release a kick ass new DP![/img]
I wouldn't count on it - especially if you're getting slow results on a new Quad Core - that's tons faster than my dual 2.3ghz PPC G5. Are you running loads of VI's?

Here's the simple solution to VI's - run them on a second machine, or on something like Muse Receptor. Seriously, I would never try to tax a single machine with the jobs of handling DAW audio and MIDI and running multiple VI's. I don't care how fast the machine is, someone will come out with a VI (or "upgrade" a current one) that gobbles CPU like crazy.

The best decision I made was to dedicate a separate computer to VI's only. I've gotten way more mileage out of my G5 that way. I can run Ivory, two instances of Kontakt, BFD 2.0, Pro 53 and B4II at once, with no CPU load on my Mac, and no latency, thanks to this setup.

To put it all on the same Mac - I just think you're asking for trouble, even though "technically" you "should" be able to do it.

What are you using for the 2nd computer? MMC or Eithernet?

bradswan · Post by **bradswan** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:02 pm

dosuna11 wrote:
David Polich wrote:
bradswan wrote:Great to hear about the new features which I'm excited about, but if DP isn't significantly more efficient regarding processing and CPU draw, I know I'll be a bit disappointed. The rending of VI's etc will help, but I'm running into CPU issues already with my new Quad core 2.66, and I'm not really using an over abundance of plugz. My hope is that Motu is taking this time to seriously address this issue and will release a kick ass new DP![/img]
I wouldn't count on it - especially if you're getting slow results on a new Quad Core - that's tons faster than my dual 2.3ghz PPC G5. Are you running loads of VI's?

Here's the simple solution to VI's - run them on a second machine, or on something like Muse Receptor. Seriously, I would never try to tax a single machine with the jobs of handling DAW audio and MIDI and running multiple VI's. I don't care how fast the machine is, someone will come out with a VI (or "upgrade" a current one) that gobbles CPU like crazy.

The best decision I made was to dedicate a separate computer to VI's only. I've gotten way more mileage out of my G5 that way. I can run Ivory, two instances of Kontakt, BFD 2.0, Pro 53 and B4II at once, with no CPU load on my Mac, and no latency, thanks to this setup.

To put it all on the same Mac - I just think you're asking for trouble, even though "technically" you "should" be able to do it.

Gotta agree, but I'm referring to tracks and plugz

PierreFunck · Post by **PierreFunck** » Sat May 03, 2008 5:39 am

Does anyone know whether pre-rendering of virtual instruments also works with VIs in a V-Rack?

Cheers,
Pitt

Phil O · Post by **Phil O** » Sat May 03, 2008 7:11 am

I'm a little late to the party, but not to late to say thanks, Brad. This sort of info is always welcome. Great report.

You're a great guy, no matter what the others say behind your back.

Kidding...just kidding!!!!!

Phil

vmg5 · Post by **vmg5** » Sat May 03, 2008 8:12 am

Any info on the cpu hit for DP6? Motu has always been on the high side. Making a ton of new features is great, but to ignore this problem would be a greater disappointment.

bOing · Post by **bOing** » Sat May 03, 2008 9:21 am

monkey man wrote:...MOTU has the sample library and technical know-how to create a ripper VI suite, as well as convolution experience which can be used in creating guitar amp/cab sims, all these things amount to an (reasonable, IMHO) expectation that there's a whole lot more to this update than one might expect.

However, there's a lot more commercial incentive to sell it off piecemeal so that users of other platforms will find it an attractive buy without changing to another DAW.

I like DP. Don't get me wrong. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a little MOPOO happening behind the scenes.

waxman · Post by **waxman** » Sat May 03, 2008 10:52 am

Brad thanks for the info... did you happen to use electric keys with DP6???

Was the latency factor still there or have they figured that out. Logic VI's have virtually no latency... I am so hoping DP 6 VIs will work without having to crank the buffers down to 128. My Mac Pro is brand new and compared to my Dual core it is blazing. Still while it is not so bad at the beginning of a project but after I get a big project going and I need to do an odub on something... I have to do a mix, turn everything else off and just use that 2 track mix in playback. It's not the end of the world but it is at least a 5 minute process to get it set up... mix, turn off all channels, change hardware buffer, odub and backagain... ahhh did I leave out the crash...

I'm not complaining DP is my DAW of choice...

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Sat May 03, 2008 12:05 pm

waxman wrote:Brad thanks for the info... did you happen to use electric keys with DP6???

Was the latency factor still there or have they figured that out. Logic VI's have virtually no latency... I am so hoping DP 6 VIs will work without having to crank the buffers down to 128. My Mac Pro is brand new and compared to my Dual core it is blazing. Still while it is not so bad at the beginning of a project but after I get a big project going and I need to do an odub on something... I have to do a mix, turn everything else off and just use that 2 track mix in playback. It's not the end of the world but it is at least a 5 minute process to get it set up... mix, turn off all channels, change hardware buffer, odub and backagain... ahhh did I leave out the crash...

I'm not complaining DP is my DAW of choice...

No, but I think I get to play with it in a few weeks.

Michael Canavan · Post by **Michael Canavan** » Sat May 03, 2008 6:27 pm

James Steele wrote:Also, I don't understand how one convolution reverb could sound not so good compared to another if they use the same IRs?

Easy, Altiverb uses 32 bit internal engine, the Space Designer plug in in Logic uses 24 bit, and while it sounds good, it's not as good as Altiverb. The new convolution reverb in DP might be 24 bit too....

BradLyons wrote: No, but I think I get to play with it in a few weeks.

Hey if you do, if there is any chance you can play around with MIDI in the Track Overview window and see if the choices for how you view chunks of MIDI have improved? My biggest complaint about DP is the way that the TO arbitrarily breaks up MIDI data without regard to phrases etc. Beyond that I would use DP over Logic. I'm still stoked about DP 6 though, and hope to find someone in Seattle who picks it up to check out the new features etc.
BTW there's a chance however slim that the new way DP handles VI's significantly bridges the gap between DP and Logic CPU wise. Logic has for years pre-rendered VI's, and if DP does it even half as efficiently expect a 10-15% increase in CPU overhead!

blue · Post by **blue** » Sat May 03, 2008 6:39 pm

Michael Canavan wrote:Logic has for years pre-rendered VI's…

Really? That's the first I've heard that. I was under the impression Logic used dynamic buffers, with a low one for record-enabled tracks and a high one for all others. I'm excited about pre-rendering because I think it might actually surpass dynamic buffering in lightening the CPU load, though I would love to have both!