DP Market Share? Anyone know?

[Mr. Quimper]

And likewise, I really don't care for Logic at all...I've tried sitting at it and setting up a basic session but it was completely confusing and uninspiring...especially coming from a Pro Tools background.

That said, I am intrigued to see what Apple comes up w/ for v.8 or whatever it will be. Maybe they will turn it into something I will actually want to use, who knows. In all honestly, while DP will always be my primary DAW, I plan on picking up the new version of Logic anyway, as, like I said, I want to be familiar w/ all Mac DAWs eventually, and I think I'd get Logic JUST for Sculpture. That said, w/ all the other VIs I have at the moment, the rest of Logic may just be overkill...

[jlaudon]

Reading this thread is kind of depressing (remember the dark days of Apple before the second coming of Steve Jobs?). MOTU definitely needs a new marketing campaign to capture new users (not switchers, that's like pulling teeth in the DAW world) - kind of a Mac and PC guy style...

Oh well, at least Mikey likes it (you know, Mike in the 'ask Mike' column in Keyboard Mag)

[PG]

I'd always wondered why Europe has been fairly windows-centric, even in audio world, and now I have an answer!

Here in Scandinavia it's my impression that the Mac has been leading in the Music business from the early 90th. ProTool and Logic TDM in the big studios, often both.

Musicians, composers and songwriters have been using Logic or Cubase. Lots of MOTU hardware here.

DP is close to non existent. I have never seen any marketing for DP.

Does MOTU care for Europe (incl. Scandinavia and GB)? Doesn't look like it from where i stand.

Could MOTU compete with LogicApple, Steinberg, Digi, RME? Maybe - if DP got rid of that old dull GUI and got optimized to run as smooth as Logic. People over here like efficiency and colors

[Timeline]

I messed around with the png files a while back and use my version of them on my system.

I colorized the remote and faders a it and still use it now on my system to keep it more colorful. There are limits indeed to doing this and the resolution is basically 72 dpi which you cannot change but they could.

I don't know, for me it helped a little.

Just an example though....

[FMiguelez]

.

Well, Garage Band and its little control surface will only hype kids into thinking they are real musicians just because they can put together some track using canned loops and moving knobs.

They'll be like: "Oh, listen to what I just WROTE!" "Listen to what I just COMPOSED!!"

No wonder it's harder than ever to sort out good music from crap music. I wouldn't necessarily say music has gotten worse. There's only a LOT more. And most of it is crap... I guess we just have to peel-off more layers of the music onion to find music that is worth listening to.

Anyway, now I REALLY want a contrlol surface JUST for DP (insert childish rant here)

Come on, who does it hurt when people with moderate musical aspirations toy around with a next-to-free piece of software for their own pleasure? I mean, let's not get that full of ourselves. Should professional photographers sneer at snapshot hobbyists every time they throw together something in iPhoto? Should film makers scoff every time iMovie is booted? Music is for everyone, even if it sucks.

Personally, I don't find it hard to determine what's good and what's not. What's good is simply what I like when I hear it. Nothing more. If it was made in GB, so be it.

Also, I wouldn't get too worried about GB users taking any work away from professional composers. If they do it would only be for two reasons: you suck, or the person who hired them sucks. Probably not a job you'd want to take anyway.

Well, I'm not worried about them in terms of taking jobs away from me, but what I really don't appreciate is the fact that now they all seem to think they are musicians just because they can move loops around. Now they think they've got it, and these kids don't want to get a formal training, and they don't want to go to music school. I mean, why bother learning all that boring stuff like harmony, scales, chord theory, etc., if they can have it nice and easy directly out of their boxes?
I hope this is NOT the next generation of musicians or the next generation of music we will have here!! Please note that I am mostly writing about the situation HERE in Mexico.

What has been happening here, though, is that they've lowered music standars, clogged the market, and ESPECIALLY driven music composition rates south.
They are like: "give me the gig. I won't charge you a dime". At best, they don't mind charging 5% of an average gig. Why would they? All they have is a laptop with GB and pirated loops.

For the real decent jobs, they present no problem at the end, since their lack of musicianship and skill shines through, but for the less-than-stellar gigs, especially when they find two-cent producers that all they are concerned about is saving money at any cost, then they take these jobs away from much more cabable musicians, and, IMO, they devalue not only the music and the normal rates, but do a disservice by accustoming producers (at least the cheap ones) into paying next to nothing, if anything at all for music.
A lot of decision-making people here have always regarded music as an after-thought, and they really prefer not paying for it. They just want "some" music in the background to have their cheap tv show sound less "dry"

Other than that, I've no problem with them. It's just that it irritates me when they say they "compose" music, or call themselves composers just because they can move loops around. Naive doesn't even begin to describe them...

[bongo_x]

when I got dp, a little over 2 years ago, my first impressions were;

1. no demo? that killed the whole idea for a while. I'm not sure why I got it actually, except I was working with someone who used it (that's only happened twice) so I got to see a little in action.

2. the interface looked like some old os9 thing. maybe superficial, but it doesn't inspire confidence. just like metro. metro may be a fine program but I'm sure the reason no one takes it seriously is because of the looks and the weird menus and such. the exact same problems dp has.

most people will not get past these things. there are too many other choices for someone to buy a program sight unseen, especially when the little you can see of it doesn't look good.

I think one of dp biggest problems is that they are not positioned anywhere to most people. the other daw's sort of have their niche and image, dp ads sort of make it out as the daw for film. that has zero appeal to the kid on the street. he doesn't make films, and these ads say "this isn't the program for you".

bb

[Timeline]

I don't consider myself a hack yet I have used GB to find a direction for a tune then imported into DP and finished playing most of the parts.

I wouldn't put it down for that in fact, praise it. They are never going to compete with DP so why worry.

[James Steele]

...partly due to ten years of Reaganomics.

Greeny... this could be debated... hence the rule about NO POLITICS on this board. Please observe that rule. Thanks.

[kassonica]

garageband is the 4 track of the 21st century tis all

[James Steele]

Greeny... with "all due respect" your post is deleted. I said "no politics" and that's the end of it. You can present something as being a fact, but it could be debated and it falls within the realm of politics. You'll excuse me if I don't let you or other users slip their personal political viewpoints into threads as fact, even if it's simply in passing.

[blue]

What has been happening here, though, is that they've lowered music standars, clogged the market, and ESPECIALLY driven music composition rates south.
They are like: "give me the gig. I won't charge you a dime". At best, they don't mind charging 5% of an average gig. Why would they? All they have is a laptop with GB and pirated loops.

Yea, that's been happening here too. But there's a lot more crappy TV these days, and thus more crappy music to service them. If anything, there's more work. But not necessarily good work. The thing is, Garage Band has nothing to do with this. People with limited talent or musical skill can and have been making a living using any piece of software, including DP. IMO, Garage Band is a silly piece of software, but there's no need to disparage it or the people who use it. I would imagine most of the people using it are just having a bit of fun.

By the way, sorry if my previous post came off as a little harsh.

[Matcher]

I messed around with the png files a while back and use my version of them on my system.

I colorized the remote and faders a it and still use it now on my system to keep it more colorful. There are limits indeed to doing this and the resolution is basically 72 dpi which you cannot change but they could.

I don't know, for me it helped a little.

Just an example though....

I'd prefer something like this over the current GUI. Don't know exactly why but it feels more intuitive.

[Jim]

Oh, don't get me started on GB. For as much as I ache for a geuine DP-specific control surface, this thing makes a mockery of everything:

This is interesting, application specific hardware, as M-Audio is a division of Avid, which also owns Digidesign. It looks to me a case of following the money. I doubt the generals at Avid are too concerned about competition between GB and PT, as they're two entirely different market segments.

Alternatively, if Avid can entice customers to investigate GB, they can hope that once the GB users realize how limiting the system is, they'll want to upgrade to something more powerful. The risk to Avid then, is will they choose Logic or PT? Or maybe the question is whether the typical GB user will ever advance beyond GB.

Probably a moot point anyway. This wouldn't be the first piece of hardware presented by Avid to rest in the dung heap of failed products. I use an Avid Steenbeck controller as a door stop. Literally.

====

BTW, as a privately held company, MOTU is under no obligation to reveal sales penetration figures. Any comparison would be speculation or hearsay.

[OldTimey]

let me just take a moment out of this busy thread to thank james for providing us DP users with a forum...

on all other recording forums that i frequent, i'm often labeled as "The DP Guy"...

[Frodo]

This is interesting, application specific hardware, as M-Audio is a division of Avid, which also owns Digidesign. It looks to me a case of following the money. I doubt the generals at Avid are too concerned about competition between GB and PT, as they're two entirely different market segments.

Excellent point of another Jerry Maguire type of "show me the money' approach, underscored by the $100 price tag. Other surfaces *new* are 5-10 times this price or more, so perhaps this speaks to a certain "market mindset" where those who will spend $1k on Logic or $2k on Nuendo are more likely to spend considerabll more than $100 on some other control surface. Of course, M-Audio has also been associated with moderately priced hardware, so iControl seems to be right up their alley.

Alternatively, if Avid can entice customers to investigate GB, they can hope that once the GB users realize how limiting the system is, they'll want to upgrade to something more powerful. The risk to Avid then, is will they choose Logic or PT? Or maybe the question is whether the typical GB user will ever advance beyond GB.

More excellent points: the price barrier is a bulletproof vest of sorts. It's hard to compete with a "free" DAW and a $100 control surface where Logic is concerned, but M-Audio's connection with Digidesign, should any version of PT be the option, shows some residual benefits for the company. As for the Logic option, perhaps there was some mutual agreement with Apple to address the potential risk of where someone wanting to upgrade would find Logic a more attractive step up than Pro Tools HD.

That still skips over DP as far as price points go. Hmm.

Probably a moot point anyway. This wouldn't be the first piece of hardware presented by Avid to rest in the dung heap of failed products. I use an Avid Steenbeck controller as a door stop. Literally.

Once again, where a $100 control surface is at issue, there may be very little risk to M-Audio or Apple should the device end up as a doorstop.

BTW, as a privately held company, MOTU is under no obligation to reveal sales penetration figures. Any comparison would be speculation or hearsay.

Also true. It would be nice to know who your "neighbors" are, though.