DP 5.01-- User reports

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Shooshie
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Post by Shooshie »

richardein wrote:First, I agree with Shooshie that the MW eq is excellent. I don't have the Waves EQ for comparison, but then I haven't felt the need to get it. Yes, the FFT is excellent on the MW.

Regarding drivers, in DP 5.0, I was having a hopeless number of stuck notes with 1.32. I tried to find 1.31, but couldn't (Shooshie posted audio drivers, not MIDI drivers). The closest I could find was 1.3, which is the only thing posted on macmusic.org, btw before1.32.

In any event, 1.3 works fine with 5.0. I'm out of town now, returning today. Will install 5.01 when I get back and if there's anything to report, will let you know.

I'm curious if 1.32 will now work properly in 5.01. I assume there is a good reason the driver was updated so would prefer to use it, if it doesn't break MIDI of course!
Richard, I posted both, but I posted the MIDI driver in several threads. I can't remember for sure where it is, but I'll try to find it and repost it.

Found it:
MOTU USB MIDI Driver version 1.3.1.sit
[edit: Fixed Link!]



Shooshie
Last edited by Shooshie on Mon May 29, 2006 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dbl
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Post by dbl »

Shooshie,

The update, when unpacked, shows "Install MOTU PCI OSX v.1.0.8" and the ensuing splash screen trumpets "audio drivers". Is this the right one, and if so what is the version of the audio drivers? 1.08? Thanks.
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Post by pcm »

toodamnhip wrote:
Shooshie wrote:Just a note about various problems in DP and "operator error:"

One thing I learned from collecting data from all you guys on your system setups is that you are using a wide variety of drivers. Some of you are mixing old MIDI drivers with new audio drivers, or vice-versa. Many think you have the latest drivers, but you don't. So, there is actually a wide variety of setups out there, and it stands to reason that many people can have problems that others just don't experience. For example, I know 100% positively for a fact that the majority of stuck notes are caused by MIDI driver version 1.3.2. Those using 1.3.1 (such as myself) rarely report any such problems. Some of us can choose which audio drivers we use, while others cannot. New Macs require the latest drivers for the PCI express cards.

Moral of story: don't be too quick to point the finger. The causes of many problems are more subtle than you think, and the skill of the operator has nothing to do with it. It's more like the luck of where you stopped installing new drivers. I stopped when I had a stable system. That's generally good sense if you can do it. (Obviously, new quad and dual-core Mac owners can't do that)

Shooshie
I am not sure I agree that having the latest drivers or, updating DP and DP not being smart enough or thorough enough to upgrade old drivers, or DP's older drivers being better than it's newr ones...I am not sure all of that would be best described as user error....

What bussiness does MOTU have upgrading drivers in a way that makes them worse, or allowing old drivers to stay in compyers when installing new nes, or not giving thorough instructions on how to remove old drivers should MOTU suspect a problem...

I thoroughly DO point my finger at MOTu and have always believed MOTU to be lacking in informing users of system liabilities, best scenarios for set ups and..I feel they are lazy in beta testing at times, making us all guineea pigs from time to time, in addition, I never ceased to be amazed at how DP improves in many ways, and then has certina "once stable" functions become problematic....

3 stpes forward..1 step back...

ANd, depending who you are, and how bad you need that function, you are either screwed or not...
You hit the nail right on the head. DP is brilliant software that is perpetually half-baked.
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Post by Jim »

My problem w/5.01 thus far:

CPU meter can be hovering around half when I start a project, but then after working with volume automation only for a while, the CPU meter goes up to around 90%, starts spiking red frequently, and the audio quality degrades (sounds like dropouts).

Closing and re-opening the project fixes this temporarily, as does Quitting and re-launching the application. Then about fifteen minutes later, I have to repeat.


This is on my G4 PB 1Ghz/1GRAM w/Traveler attached, doing a 48/16 project on an OMF import from an Avid Symphony.
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Post by Shooshie »

dbl wrote:Shooshie,

The update, when unpacked, shows "Install MOTU PCI OSX v.1.0.8" and the ensuing splash screen trumpets "audio drivers". Is this the right one, and if so what is the version of the audio drivers? 1.08? Thanks.

My apologies. I prepared those links (to the audio AND MIDI drivers) a while back and stored them in a TextEdit file I was using as an intermediate storage for everyone's data when I was loading up the database. I've been posting that link all this time, and it has been wrong! I can't believe I did that. I was functioning on zero sleep after about 48 hours of being awake, so that probably explains it, but still; no excuse. I'm just very sorry about the mistake.

The link has been corrected. I tested it. Try it again now.


Shooshie
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Shooshie
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Post by Shooshie »

pcm wrote:You hit the nail right on the head. DP is brilliant software that is perpetually half-baked.
Personally, I would say 9/10ths baked. Most of it works fine, but those parts that are not ready for prime time sure do bring down the buzz of working on a fine platform.

Shooshie
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Shooshie
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Post by Shooshie »

Jim wrote:My problem w/5.01 thus far:

CPU meter can be hovering around half when I start a project, but then after working with volume automation only for a while, the CPU meter goes up to around 90%, starts spiking red frequently, and the audio quality degrades (sounds like dropouts).

Closing and re-opening the project fixes this temporarily, as does Quitting and re-launching the application. Then about fifteen minutes later, I have to repeat.


This is on my G4 PB 1Ghz/1GRAM w/Traveler attached, doing a 48/16 project on an OMF import from an Avid Symphony.
Oh great. Sounds like a memory leak. Damn! When is MOTU going to start beta-testing their stuff? Maybe they need to look for NEW beta testers. Their current testers just aren't catching the bugs. MOTU? You listening? Please give it some thought. We paid users really do feel like full-time beta testers. It shouldn't have to be like this. We accept a certain amount of this because we love the software so much, but you could do so much more in the market if you'd just make DP solid again.

Shooshie
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toodamnhip
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Post by toodamnhip »

Shooshie wrote:
pcm wrote:You hit the nail right on the head. DP is brilliant software that is perpetually half-baked.
Personally, I would say 9/10ths baked. Most of it works fine, but those parts that are not ready for prime time sure do bring down the buzz of working on a fine platform.

Shooshie
I agree Shoosh...

except..remember what I said....

I YOU happen to really rely on the one thing that takes a step back on an upgrade, the 9/10ths baked pie blows up in your face and you suddenly are really, really pissed...
Such as havong all plug ins and thus, all master files made in OS9 become obsolete when upgrading to DP in OSx..and many more...yes?
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Post by tommymandel »

i dunno. .. i really like 5.01. maybe cuz i have a new computer and not too many extras on it. closer to what motu may be testing dp on. but I am using digidesign hardware for audio (002r)....motu MIDI interface, and 1.31 MIDI driver (thanks to Sooshie.)
At the risk of sounding liike a collaborationist during wwii, I must say that we should be nicer to motu, and they will be good to us.
maybe motu could have one of their guys just chime in a bit more frequently, to let us know that, right or wrong in our complaints, they do listen in here, and feel the standard obligation to ones customers that we seem to expect. And that they are. in fact, doing all they can. Hey this new 5.0.2 release really DOES fix alot of things, Where's our thanks to them? huh? C'mon guys, Stroke Time. Let's let Motu hear some positive feedback.
HAH fooled ya with the 5.02 bluff. But personally, 5.0.1 has led me into a very fun creative phase with DP, and I, for one, am grateful.
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Post by sdfalk »

I'm very greatful for the house that Motu has built.
When Things in the house are missing though
(Motus new VI's) and part of the roof occasionally
caves in (unexplained crashes even after a complete
re-install of the OS) I know that I for one am a bit
pissed.
I still dig DP, and things are getting better.
I just wish they'd get better faster.
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Matcher
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Post by Matcher »

Can someone with v5.01 check if this bug has been fixed:

-Open the MIDI editor and select pitch bend in the automation lane.

-Select the controller lane meter to show pitch bend values only (80-80)

-Select the pencil and draw pitch bend automation values at the highest and lowest points in the lane that (should) present the values -8192 and 8191.

-Open the event list and see if the values are -8192 and 8191.

In 4.61 the values are -8064 and 8064. The values can be changed to -8192 and 8191 in the event list or by dragging the nodes.

I really hope the drawing works in 5.01, it'd save me from so much of unnecessary work. :(

Then again, my hopes aren't high after the answer I got from motu's tech support:

My Q:

2) I can't get the pb value over or below 8064 with automation or by
dragging the cursor and following the value from the pointer cordinates and the value in the pointer cordinates is 8064 even when the
pointer is clearly below 8000 as indicated by the white line in the meter.

...And here's motu's tech support's answer:


2. This is the limit for Pitch Bend. The range goes from -8064 to 8064.

Everyone can make their own conclusions about this.
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Post by dbl »

Shooshie wrote: The link has been corrected. I tested it. Try it again now.

Shooshie
Thanks Shooshie!
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Post by Frodo »

Matcher wrote:...And here's motu's tech support's answer:

2. This is the limit for Pitch Bend. The range goes from -8064 to 8064.

Everyone can make their own conclusions about this.
There are two issues with this--

1. I know for a fact that the tech rep is incorrect(with all due respect to MOTU), but let's just say for the heck of it that he IS correct...

2. Then, the info in the manual is entirely wrong, and there has been nothing offered in the way of accurate info to correct it.

We know the range is -8192 to +8191 as stated in the manual. These numbers can indeed be typed in, but can't *always* be drawn in or edited with the pencil tool to full range on my system. Neither can I access the full range by using the pitch bend wheel even when my controller is set "wide open".
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Post by Timeline »

Could someone begin a concise list of fixes from 4.61 AND new list of any new bugs?

I would especially like to know about automation fixes.
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Post by Frodo »

We can at least start a summary of what we know so far in this thread.

Keep in mind that some report improvements while others are still having the same problems.

1. Erratic MIDI Click problem when using count-off was fixed by trashing prefs (partially but not entirely related to solution listed in item #5)

2. Audio dropouts when playing right after recording-- fixed on some systems, not on others

3. CPU spikes in 4.61 constant (Dual 800), occasional in 5.0, hovering around 75% in 5.01

4. 5.0 crashed while edge-editing soundbites. Fixed in 5.01.

5. Pause on Locate and other features tied to DP 4.x preferences work better when a new sequence, new V-Stack, new chunk, or new VI patch setting is created in DP 5.x. Could be related to MIDI driver 1.3.2. According to Shooshie, those using 1.3.1 are having fewer MIDI problems-- sluggish starts, etc.

6. DP 5.x- crashes apparently associated with certain AUX track bussing functions-- no known solution posted. Could be driver related...

7. Meter Bridge clips readouts..? Composites signal and red-lines what looks fine in the mixer's master fader. No solution (?)

8. Meter Bridge causes crash in DP 5.x. When opened with TRACKS selected, (to quote muzishun) choosing "New Aux Track via New Mono/Stereo Bundle", I get a "Digital Performer has encountered an error" message, followed by an inevitable crash.

9. Another from muzishun: I have a plug-in on an audio track - say MW Equalizer. When I go to "Automation Setup", under "Enable Automation Types", in the "Add" dropdown, the parameters for the plug-in are not present...until I automate one of them, then that one will show up. In 4.5, this was not the case. All parameters were available immediately.
Shooshie wrote:I've had problems with the Meter Bridge. My intuition is that anything that changes which would involve the Meter Bridge while it is open stands a good chance of causing problems. Example: change audio bundles while the Meter Bridge is open, and you may actually break the Meter Bridge semi-permanently until you put those bundles back as they were, then CLOSE the meter bridge before changing those bundles.

In your case, you added an Aux track, which would actually change the meter bridge. It would have to add a track to its display. That may or may not be enough to crash it. In your case it was. So, it's advisable to close the Meter Bridge before making large changes involving I/O and numbers of tracks.
10. BTD dropouts and volume jumps on playback-- no definitive solution.

11. From user Jim:
CPU meter can be hovering around half when I start a project, but then after working with volume automation only for a while, the CPU meter goes up to around 90%, starts spiking red frequently, and the audio quality degrades (sounds like dropouts).

Closing and re-opening the project fixes this temporarily, as does Quitting and re-launching the application. Then about fifteen minutes later, I have to repeat.


12. Uncertain if the Pitch Bend Range has been corrected in DP5 to -8192 to +8191 instead of the MOTU alleged limit of -8064 to 8064

13. MAS-Native VI's with DP 5.x on some systems not appearing in the Add Tracks Menu even though proper MAS files are present in the the proper Library/Audio/Plugins folders. One solution, again, was to trash old Prefs, reconfig any V-Stacks-- basically start with fresh DP 5.x projects. Some users are reporting problems running older projects from DP 4.61 and earlier in DP 5.x, despite repairing permissions, accounting for all files, reinstalling, etc., etc.

Note: unless someone does a side-by-side test with DP 4.x and DP 5.x, cross checking the long DP 4.x problems thread with the DP 5 Wish List thread, the list of problems and fixes may ever be incomplete. But, perhaps this is a start.

Feel free to add to this list, and make any corrections as they are "lifted into consciousness".
Last edited by Frodo on Mon May 29, 2006 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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