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AmpliDood, didnt you say somewhere we can subscribe to your newsletter, or some such thing. How do we do that? And how can we all help support your efforts?

Thanks

labman wrote:AmpliDood, didnt you say somewhere we can subscribe to your newsletter, or some such thing. How do we do that? And how can we all help support your efforts?

Thanks

amplidood@gmail.com

Shooshie wrote:I just don't get it. What's the big attraction to the older versions of DP?

The real nostalgia about DP5 is not related to its GUI only, but to some of the fuctionality that for some unknown reason has been trashed during the transition to v6/7.

1- the ability to check-uncheck scroll mode from any window. Now we got to .a) click on the window we want to perform the action .b) go to the control panel to unable-disable it. Very nice screen ride if you're running for a carpal tunnel prize.

2- a control panel with all the info we need. Now we've got a larger CP with a fraction of the info … but it gets transparent, how cool is that?

3- lock-unlock movie to the seq "lock icon" Now we must learn another key command or navigate through the mini menu.

4- uncolored waveform. No matter which color code you use for your project, the waveform was always easily readable at any zoom level, and your color code was alway there. Now with this PT-alike legoed waveform, if you use a custom-used-to-view color code (as I do), you realize that with one option, darker color are useless, with another option lighter color are useless. Please, gimme back the "classic" waveform view!

5- dancing data field. Depending from the length of the data (three or two digit) while inputting numbers the data fieds dance around fm L to R, and my eyes follow it driving me nuts.

6- having removed the soundbite info from the soundbite window seems to me another nonsense. Not mentioning all those biiig Info Panel that clutter the desktop whenever they appear.

7- the loss of all those visible and always available buttons on any window title bar.

Plus all the items that has been moved, like:

1- mini menu, from form upper left to upper right
2- show track selector, from window title bar to bottom left
3- Quick filter, from upper left to lower left
4- audible mode, from (every) window title bar to CP
5- select all range, from double click on region counter, to opt-shift-return or whatever it is now. A double click substitute by a three keys command …

It's true that now I'm used to some of the new behavior, but honestly, apart the new DP7 functionality which I totally love, there's enough stuff IMHO, to have a bit of nostalgia.

I know here I'm not talking about GUI only, and this it could be off-topic, but linking the words "nostalgia and DP5" this is what it came out from my mind

You make some very good points. I like it when people are specific. And frankly, many of your points were once my concerns, too. I guess I got used to them. But some are non-issues, IMO. I'll try to comment briefly:

danworks wrote:The real nostalgia about DP5 is not related to its GUI only, but to some of the fuctionality that for some unknown reason has been trashed during the transition to v6/7.

1- the ability to check-uncheck scroll mode from any window. Now we got to .a) click on the window we want to perform the action .b) go to the control panel to unable-disable it. Very nice screen ride if you're running for a carpal tunnel prize.

Are you talking about following the green cursor? Continuous scrolling? I never use continuous scrolling, so for me it's a non-issue. I have all windows follow the cursor all the time, but paged. If I need to go back or hold a page, I know the keyboard commands to do so without even thinking about it.

danworks wrote:2- a control panel with all the info we need. Now we've got a larger CP with a fraction of the info … but it gets transparent, how cool is that?

Yep, I think we lost some important functionality there. But for some reason I don't miss it anymore. I suppose I've found other ways. Plus, the new "Shortcuts" Bar makes up for a LOT of that. Really. I keep it open at all times.

danworks wrote:3- lock-unlock movie to the seq "lock icon" Now we must learn another key command or navigate through the mini menu.

Not my concern, but I see how it would bother anyone who uses it.

danworks wrote:4- uncolored waveform. No matter which color code you use for your project, the waveform was always easily readable at any zoom level, and your color code was alway there. Now with this PT-alike legoed waveform, if you use a custom-used-to-view color code (as I do), you realize that with one option, darker color are useless, with another option lighter color are useless. Please, gimme back the "classic" waveform view!

I rather like this feature, but here's why: I keep about 25 colors under QuicKey commands for easy changing. I change colors as soon as any track bothers me. Over the years, I've refined my color palettes so that they are more effective. Also, I use Amplidood's Jade and Gold mods, which require custom colors, too. Anyway, I can always get a field that's just right in the track colors and audio colors.

danworks wrote:5- dancing data field. Depending from the length of the data (three or two digit) while inputting numbers the data fieds dance around fm L to R, and my eyes follow it driving me nuts.

I haven't seen this. I've heard others report it, but for some reason it's not a problem here.

danworks wrote:6- having removed the soundbite info from the soundbite window seems to me another nonsense. Not mentioning all those biiig Info Panel that clutter the desktop whenever they appear.

The soundbite info is still there in the Soundfile window. It's the same window we used to know, just with a different name. It IS inconvenient that they have two versions of that window now. But the information is still there.

danworks wrote:7- the loss of all those visible and always available buttons on any window title bar.

Most of that stuff is still there; just relocated. I did like that, and my eyes do track the information and buttons more slowly nowadays, but continue to get faster. Maybe in another year?

danworks wrote:Plus all the items that has been moved, like:

• 1- mini menu, from form upper left to upper right

6 of one, half a dozen of the other. You get used to it.

• 2- show track selector, from window title bar to bottom left

Got used to that one real fast. Not a problem.

• 3- Quick filter, from upper left to lower left

Ok, now THAT one is one I've been asking for. When working in MIDI, it was always a trip to the top of the window, then back down to the CC data. I'm changing the highlighted data all the time. I LIKE the box right down there where I'm working.

• 4- audible mode, from (every) window title bar to CP

It's always in the same place. Not much different than where it was before, really, once you remember where it is.

• 5- select all range, from double click on region counter, to opt-shift-return or whatever it is now. A double click substitute by a three keys command …

I like that it's in every window, whereas before it was just in the Tracks Overview. Very convenient now. Just a little different, and soon you learn it.

danworks wrote:It's true that now I'm used to some of the new behavior, but honestly, apart the new DP7 functionality which I totally love, there's enough stuff IMHO, to have a bit of nostalgia.

I know here I'm not talking about GUI only, and this it could be off-topic, but linking the words "nostalgia and DP5" this is what it came out from my mind

Yeah, I understand better now. Even though my experience is a little different, I do understand what you're saying, and I remember saying pretty much the same things in the first month I used DP6. But I got used to it, and I actually like the new interface now.

• 5- select all range, from double click on region counter, to opt-shift-return or whatever it is now.
  
  Plus les choses change ...
  
  Shooshie

Shooshie wrote:You make some very good points. I like it when people are specific. And frankly, many of your points were once my concerns, too. I guess I got used to them. But some are non-issues, IMO. I'll try to comment briefly:

danworks wrote:The real nostalgia about DP5 is not related to its GUI only, but to some of the fuctionality that for some unknown reason has been trashed during the transition to v6/7.

1- the ability to check-uncheck scroll mode from any window. Now we got to .a) click on the window we want to perform the action .b) go to the control panel to unable-disable it. Very nice screen ride if you're running for a carpal tunnel prize.

Are you talking about following the green cursor? Continuous scrolling? I never use continuous scrolling, so for me it's a non-issue. I have all windows follow the cursor all the time, but paged. If I need to go back or hold a page, I know the keyboard commands to do so without even thinking about it.

I use continuos scrolling a lot while I'm playing the seq and editing. Sometime I need to keep the visualized page to see a particular section, even if it's not the frontmost window. Now to stop the scroll I must click the window to be the front one and then travel to CP, two action to perform one function. I wouldn't call it a feature.

danworks wrote:2- a control panel with all the info we need. Now we've got a larger CP with a fraction of the info … but it gets transparent, how cool is that?

Shooshie wrote:Yep, I think we lost some important functionality there. But for some reason I don't miss it anymore. I suppose I've found other ways. Plus, the new "Shortcuts" Bar makes up for a LOT of that. Really. I keep it open at all times.

You don't miss it or you don't remember anymore
Finding other ways sometimes means "getting used to". I believe many times we get used to things that aren't necessarily better.
Shortcuts? We already had drawer, then on v6 disappeared, later - I suppose after major complaint it - has been re-introduced.

danworks wrote:3- lock-unlock movie to the seq "lock icon" Now we must learn another key command or navigate through the mini menu.

Shooshie wrote:Not my concern, but I see how it would bother anyone who uses it.

1- Lock the movie and start to freely write something
2- listen to it. It's almost alright but I need to edit something so … do I want to do that locked at movie? Naaahh, so unlock the movie
3- lets see the result, lock the movie and play
4- it may need some adjustment and then what about adjusting the barlines so I can add stuff, print a score etc? Unlock the movie. Nice scenario isn't it?

danworks wrote:4- uncolored waveform. No matter which color code you use for your project, the waveform was always easily readable at any zoom level, and your color code was alway there. Now with this PT-alike legoed waveform, if you use a custom-used-to-view color code (as I do), you realize that with one option, darker color are useless, with another option lighter color are useless. Please, gimme back the "classic" waveform view!

Shooshie wrote:I rather like this feature, but here's why: I keep about 25 colors under QuicKey commands for easy changing. I change colors as soon as any track bothers me. Over the years, I've refined my color palettes so that they are more effective. Also, I use Amplidood's Jade and Gold mods, which require custom colors, too. Anyway, I can always get a field that's just right in the track colors and audio colors.

That's exactly what I'm talking about!!
Before you were just working at your music, setting your color code and edit a well displayed waveform.
Now you keep about 25 colors under QuicKey commands for easy changing cos it could happen that some color tracks bother you … aka, this color thing it's a pita thus I'm forced to use an external app (quickey) to swap color whenever it get hard to see and/or edit.

danworks wrote:5- dancing data field. Depending from the length of the data (three or two digit) while inputting numbers the data fieds dance around fm L to R, and my eyes follow it driving me nuts.

Shooshie wrote:I haven't seen this. I've heard others report it, but for some reason it's not a problem here.

You haven't? Look here
http://www.santibailor.it/betas/dancing.mov

danworks wrote:6- having removed the soundbite info from the soundbite window seems to me another nonsense. Not mentioning all those biiig Info Panel that clutter the desktop whenever they appear.

Shooshie wrote:The soundbite info is still there in the Soundfile window. It's the same window we used to know, just with a different name. It IS inconvenient that they have two versions of that window now. But the information is still there.

Inconvenient seems a gentle euphemism
Before we had nice tabs on the soundbite window, select a bite, click on a tabs, bingo.
Now I'm always find myself thinking "… where in the hell it's this info thing". Doing lil things like this while you're composing, editing and trying to assure a breathing-in-your-neck-client that everything will be great, could be nerve-racking.

danworks wrote:7- the loss of all those visible and always available buttons on any window title bar.

Shooshie wrote:Most of that stuff is still there; just relocated. I did like that, and my eyes do track the information and buttons more slowly nowadays, but continue to get faster. Maybe in another year?

I'd say arbitrarily relocated. Usually every change-update should be done toward a view of better interaction between user and the app. Moving this fm here to there means … what?

Shooshie wrote:

danworks wrote:Plus all the items that has been moved, like:

big snip

• 5- select all range, from double click on region counter, to opt-shift-return or whatever it is now. A double click substitute by a three keys command …

I like that it's in every window, whereas before it was just in the Tracks Overview. Very convenient now. Just a little different, and soon you learn it.

Not only on TOV but also on Selection Pane, and that worked everywhere, as far as I remember

Shooshie wrote:Yeah, I understand better now. Even though my experience is a little different, I do understand what you're saying, and I remember saying pretty much the same things in the first month I used DP6. But I got used to it, and I actually like the new interface now.

• 5- select all range, from double click on region counter, to opt-shift-return or whatever it is now.
  
  Plus les choses change ...
  
  Shooshie

Shoosh, you're better than me, you've got used to after one month, I still swear a lot cos many of these changes sometimes slow me down

I always had the feeling that leaving DP5 has been a tough and arguing moment. That hasn't been an "everyone agree on this" issue. As a result we had DP6 which was IMHO a nightmare if compared to DP5, talking about working with it and delivering finished project to client without stress.

Now it's better, still a bit awkward but definitely better. I never went back to DP5 since a year now and I won't to that. But, sorry to say that, I still find unbelievable how some things have been arbritrarily removed or changed without any apparent logic or improvement. Just changed or removed. And this is, for me, still very difficult to understand cos even if I've got used to, it isn't any better.

Obviously it's only my humble opinion

I sincerely wish it was within my power to reinstate some of the conveniences we lost in this transition. I will tell you this. I was told by MOTU that their user interface is based 100% from user requests.

That seems very hard to believe after what we've witnessed since the introduction of DP6. In fact, I would question whether one user was queried at all before the rampant redesign of an interface that was so familiar to so many people. I can guarantee you that a lot of decisions would have been reconsidered.

danworks wrote:

danworks wrote:4- uncolored waveform. No matter which color code you use for your project, the waveform was always easily readable at any zoom level, and your color code was alway there. Now with this PT-alike legoed waveform, if you use a custom-used-to-view color code (as I do), you realize that with one option, darker color are useless, with another option lighter color are useless. Please, gimme back the "classic" waveform view!

Shooshie wrote:I rather like this feature, but here's why: I keep about 25 colors under QuicKey commands for easy changing. I change colors as soon as any track bothers me. Over the years, I've refined my color palettes so that they are more effective. Also, I use Amplidood's Jade and Gold mods, which require custom colors, too. Anyway, I can always get a field that's just right in the track colors and audio colors.

That's exactly what I'm talking about!!
Before you were just working at your music, setting your color code and edit a well displayed waveform.
Now you keep about 25 colors under QuicKey commands for easy changing cos it could happen that some color tracks bother you … aka, this color thing it's a pita thus I'm forced to use an external app (quickey) to swap color whenever it get hard to see and/or edit.

No, I wasn't clear, I guess. I ALWAYS kept those colors there. For many years. I've always used color harmony or contrast to great advantage when working with MIDI files, and liked being able to switch them instantly without even thinking about it. They just happen to come in handy for the audio, too.

Sorry, but I'm not with you on this one. I happen to love it as it is now. I guess you can set your audio tracks to black, but I rather like the colored waveforms. I'm surprised that some people do not.

danworks wrote:

danworks wrote:6- having removed the soundbite info from the soundbite window seems to me another nonsense. Not mentioning all those biiig Info Panel that clutter the desktop whenever they appear.

Shooshie wrote:The soundbite info is still there in the Soundfile window. It's the same window we used to know, just with a different name. It IS inconvenient that they have two versions of that window now. But the information is still there.

Inconvenient seems a gentle euphemism
Before we had nice tabs on the soundbite window, select a bite, click on a tabs, bingo.
Now I'm always find myself thinking "… where in the hell it's this info thing". Doing lil things like this while you're composing, editing and trying to assure a breathing-in-your-neck-client that everything will be great, could be nerve-racking.

We're just caught in the learning curve again. I think we'll all get over it, but I sure didn't like it at first. I think there's a lot of wasted space on the screen, and yes, a lot of extra clicking to get rid of it, and once you do, you've hidden essential controls, so... yes, I'm with you on that. But I've been wondering how they were going to pull off the old title-bar button trick in a Cocoa GUI. Maybe it can be done; I don't know, but they chose not to do it, for whatever reason. It may have been a forced decision to avoid broken buttons from OSX upgrades. I don't know.

danworks wrote:

Shooshie wrote:

• 5- select all range, from double click on region counter, to opt-shift-return or whatever it is now. A double click substitute by a three keys command …

I like that it's in every window, whereas before it was just in the Tracks Overview. Very convenient now. Just a little different, and soon you learn it.

Not only on TOV but also on Selection Pane, and that worked everywhere, as far as I remember

Shooshie wrote:Yeah, I understand better now. Even though my experience is a little different, I do understand what you're saying, and I remember saying pretty much the same things in the first month I used DP6. But I got used to it, and I actually like the new interface now.

• 5- select all range, from double click on region counter, to opt-shift-return or whatever it is now.
  
  Plus les choses change ...
  
  Shooshie

Shoosh, you're better than me, you've got used to after one month, I still swear a lot cos many of these changes sometimes slow me down

I always had the feeling that leaving DP5 has been a tough and arguing moment. That hasn't been an "everyone agree on this" issue. As a result we had DP6 which was IMHO a nightmare if compared to DP5, talking about working with it and delivering finished project to client without stress.

Now it's better, still a bit awkward but definitely better. I never went back to DP5 since a year now and I won't to that. But, sorry to say that, I still find unbelievable how some things have been arbritrarily removed or changed without any apparent logic or improvement. Just changed or removed. And this is, for me, still very difficult to understand cos even if I've got used to, it isn't any better.

Obviously it's only my humble opinion

Your opinion matters as much as mine, Dan. And when I say I got over it in a month, what I mean is that I got over the hump in a month. I got over the major issues in a month. I'm like you; I still look for little things where they aren't, though I'm getting a lot better. The trade-off is that a lot of things are now easier than ever before. Let's take comps, for example. (I don't remember when comps became a feature, though) and there are more things. I like the Shortcuts bar better than the old drawers. Those drawers would get out of sequence (you could open then in any order) and I'd get confused, sometimes finally realizing that the drawer I was reaching for was actually closed. So, the old interface wasn't perfect, either.

But here's my take: I've seen this happen several times now. Since the first Performer interface to the current DP interface, we've gone through a LOT of changes. Each time sent me scurrying for the manual, searching menus, scratching my head. It's just the way of change. We've had a very nicely operating DP for many years, but the world has said "that OLD Digital Performer looks so OLD and probably doesn't work too well since it looks so OLD and decrepit, so why would I ever buy that OLD thing? So MOTU updates it and makes it newer and more appealing, and they practically get hanged by a mob for it. What's a company to do? I think they did about the best they can do. It's different, and I like it in many ways, but as amplidood says you can never please everyone with a single interface.

Well, I'm going to quit hijacking the Dood's thread here. All I can say is give it time. This has happened before!

Shooshie

is it possible to make a gold version for 7.02 that uses all the mixing board features (pan knobs, faders, input-mute-solo-rec buttons, etc) as gold 1.04 or did motu change something? or would it be possible to tweak gold 1.04 a bit to work w/ 7.02? missing a bit of the functionality of the previous mods plus it would be great to not have to get used to something new again. keep up the good work and thx in advance

amplidood wrote:I sincerely wish it was within my power to reinstate some of the conveniences we lost in this transition. I will tell you this. I was told by MOTU that their user interface is based 100% from user requests.

Logic and Protools users request that GUI to boycott DP, not us

amplidood wrote:That seems very hard to believe after what we've witnessed since the introduction of DP6. In fact, I would question whether one user was queried at all before the rampant redesign of an interface that was so familiar to so many people. I can guarantee you that a lot of decisions would have been reconsidered.

Knowing - more or less - the way MOTU always behaved since I use their stuff (1986), I'm 100% sure they took their decision without asking anyone else out of their office.
Until pre 6 era, this behavior always worked very well, in fact I don't remember a single complaint about GUI.

In these days where MOTU is the only "independent" company fighting on the DAW market vs other companies that has been swallowed by big corp, I would reconsider that strategy and shine as much as possible the mirror for the larks. (Italian motto)

That could be a better GUI (and you're in the right road!), more features (we already have enough feature to re arrange the Lohengrin but it's never enough), better time stretch algorithm, a talent simulator plugin, whatever …

We'll see

ks wrote:is it possible to make a gold version for 7.02 that uses all the mixing board features (pan knobs, faders, input-mute-solo-rec buttons, etc) as gold 1.04 or did motu change something? or would it be possible to tweak gold 1.04 a bit to work w/ 7.02? missing a bit of the functionality of the previous mods plus it would be great to not have to get used to something new again. keep up the good work and thx in advance

Totally possible, with the single exception being the Info Bar. They changed they way the end of the info bar is handled graphically (who knows why), so the entire info bar must be at a high level of transparency now.

gold variation 1 was the one i was using i think - a version of that or gold complete 1.4.1 that could run in 7.02 would be great. info bar doesnt matter to me. could i do this myself just by dropping in the older mods or would they need to be tweaked by you to work right?

ks wrote:gold variation 1 was the one i was using i think - a version of that or gold complete 1.4.1 that could run in 7.02 would be great. info bar doesnt matter to me. could i do this myself just by dropping in the older mods or would they need to be tweaked by you to work right?

There's about 6 .png files that won't work, and the .xml files. Shouldn't take long. I'll do it once I get it to California in the next couple days. In the meantime, did you try the new Gold? It's pretty nice.

i did try the new gold and its nice, i'm just missing the larger smri buttons and clearer (to me) pan knobs and faders...

ill check back in a few days - thx!

btw - it was gold 1.4.1 that i got attached to, not the variation (standard was easier to read especially on inserts)

and... while you are at it...I would love a 7.02 version of Dark - my fave so far!

Looks better on the first page and several versions Dark exist !