Stuck MIDI notes...arrrrrgggggghhhhhh!

[markwayne]

I'm trying the "PCI/USB2" card approach mentioned here. So far, two days...no stuck notes! I'll keep and eye on it...

Do let us know. I've just ordered the same. If it turns out to be hardware, it still won't explain out why none of my other DAW software exhibits this problem. I've now tried Live4, Melodyne3, Cubase, Logic and Tracktion and they all record MIDI just fine with no stuck notes.

ah well,
Wayne

[instacue]

Reporting in...
Was eager to try PCI card with 5 USB 2.0 ports (instead of built in USB) on my setup - hooked it up today and unfortunately, NOTES ARE STILL STICKING. It sticks the worst after pushing "stop" in DP in the middle of a sequence (while notes are sustaining, before note offs). If I let it play from top to bottom with no interruptions it rarely sticks, but who can work that way?

So far, all versions of DP above 4.12 stick notes like crazy on my setup, but in 4.12 nothing EVER sticks. This despite having all current drivers and trying all the suggestions of this forum and numerous ones from MOTU Techs. Bummer.

Too bad this didn't help for me (though at $28 for the card I can always use more USB ports).

Any other ideas????
--DP 4.61, 4.12, Mac G4 Dual 1.4 Gig, 2 Gig ram, Sys 10.3.9, 10.2.8, Aurora Igniter LT pci card, PCI 424, 2408 optical in and out to Apogee AD-8000, Apogee DA16, 3 MTP AV USBs, MTP II, MidiExpress 128. 12 SampleCell cards on Nubus Mac, 2 GigaStudio PCs, Aardsync II word clock house sync, Mach V, Stylus RMX, Atmosphere, Trilogy, SoundSoap, SoundSoap Pro, Altiverb

[markwayne]

This despite having all current drivers and trying all the suggestions of this forum and numerous ones from MOTU Techs. Bummer.

Well last night I had a little extra time so I did a fresh install of OSX on a spare SCSI volume, loaded up drivers from my archive directory and installed DP 4.52. I recorded a series of MIDI tracks. MIDI response was much improved and my stuck notes were gone. I was about to start laying out a plan to migrate all my plugins and work and then thought about how much time I was talking about and decided to just file this data away and keep working in Cubase and Live.

I reboot to my main drive and 10.9.3 and (I can't help myself) check the MTPav drivers on this volume. They are 1.31 while those in my archive were 1.24d. Okay! Why not? I'll sleep in tomorrow. I trash the 1.31 drviers, restart and install the 1.24d drivers. I restart and record some MIDI. Response seemed good. No stuck notes. It was really late by this time, so I can't be sure but it seemed like the shifting and flamming were greatly reduced as well. It was late and the schedule is full for the rest of the month, so I went to bed.

Now I have been this route before and thought I had this problem sorted only to have symptoms return with a vengance. I'm only offering this as a possible fix if you are using the latest MTPav drivers. I'll report back when I have a chance to push DP hard again. (I've moved all current projects to a combination of Cubase and Live until this is fixed. Still no word from MOTU tech support BTW.)

Wayne

[Tobor]

Interesting, Wayne....

When I was going through the roundabout with the MOTU techs a few months ago, at one point I installed older drivers (1.2.2?). Then they came out with 1.3.1 and claimed it was better.

So I'm using 1.3.1 and for some things DP seemed more stable after I installed it, but my midiclock/locate point/song position pointer disfunction is the same no matter what I use, which ....for me... is a crippler.

Maybe I should just get with the program and start copying, pasting, and time stretching loops....

Thanks for all your gumshoe exploits!

Side topic: since you use Logic, Cubase, and Live, how do you rate them in the MIDI department? I'd never dreamed of switching before, but like you may need to boot up something that can do the job.

Tobor

[markwayne]

Side topic: since you use Logic, Cubase, and Live, how do you rate them in the MIDI department? I'd never dreamed of switching before, but like you may need to boot up something that can do the job.

I should preface any comments with the fact that I left (non-digital) Performer 3.x running on a Mac Plus in about 1993 for Studio Vision running on a Quadra 840av. I used to moan to Opcode to make editing more "Performer-like" back then. The strength of DP for me has been that, if you disregard the audio side of the house, it's Performer v3.x. It looks pretty close. Even the little, custom, non-mac-like dialogs have not changed much. Switching to DP when Opcode was killed felt very natural as far as MIDI went.

With that said, Logic is, I think, going to be my next primary DAW. It has amazing depth. Unfortunately, it has all that damn depth. I need a couple of weeks of down-time to spend learning Logic before I even think about using it for production. It's been pretty stable and MIDI works fine. USB dongles scare me.

Cubase is a bit more comfortable. It has the same roots as Logic but less complexity and a more straight-forward way of routing MIDI and audio. I can work in Cubase and it's been very stable for me. (Although I've heard scary stuff from other users.) USB dongles still tick me off.

Live is really quite cool although I would not classify it as a DAW. It's like the coolest sketchpad you could ever want. It's lightweight. It has been the most problem-free audio software I've ever used. MIDI editing is pretty much non-existent. However, it's blazing fast. I can record a bunch of MIDI tracks and then slap together a working arrangment to port over to a full-blown DAW for editing and adding audio tracks as fast as I can play the parts. I tend to use Live the way I used to use the sequencers in my ESQ-1 and MPC60. Get some ideas down. Tweak them until I'm smiling and then record the whole shebang into Performer using that incredible, new, multi-record feature they introduced in ~1991.

It's funny how all these years later, I have yet to regain the elegance of that workflow.

just my opinions of course,
Wayne

[williemyers]

""I'm trying the "PCI/USB2" card approach mentioned here. So far, two days...no stuck notes! I'll keep and eye on it...""

Three days now....not running any really "heavy" projects yet ("heavy" being defined as 50+ MIDI tracks. BTW, all of the problems I've had with DP have been on MIDI-only or MIDI-mostly projects...very little, if any, audio and no plug-ins).
Anyway, I wondering if (make that, *praying* that) this new solution...a Belkiin 2-port USB2 PCI card...is going to be the solution. A clear, healthy MIDI stream going to the MTP's seems to make sense. I don't think the card is speed-boosting the data, as my Mac's not USB2. But maybe the seperate path is helping.

Anyway, if I can make a successful week on it, I'll let you all know.

[markwayne]

Three days now....not running any really "heavy" projects yet ("heavy" being defined as 50+ MIDI tracks. BTW, all of the problems I've had with DP have been on MIDI-only or MIDI-mostly projects...very little, if any, audio and no plug-ins).

I think that's what sets those of us with this problem apart. I get the feeling most users here are primarily doing audio recording with minimal amounts of MIDI. My experiences have been like yours. I can record audio all day long without any problems. MIDI seems to just choke DP on my rig.

Are you pushing MTC and beat clock out any of your ports? Do you have StylusRMX? Which MTP drivers are you using? These are the three top suspects in my ongoing investigation of DP and the case of the slipping, sticking MIDI.

I beat on DP 4.52 a little last night at the end of a long day. I threw together a dozen tracks of intricate rhythmic patterns across all eight ports of my MTPav followed by several tracks of stereo audio with plugins just to try and stress my rig a bit and didn't hear a single glitch. DP hung in quite well. (BTW - The only change for me has been to roll back to 4.52 and the 1.24 MTP drivers.) I was not, however, pushing out any MTC or beat clocks at the time. I'm going to try and test DP some more tonight adding in one component at a time. Of course, that all depends on getting caught up on a little more work today.

Still no email or call back from MOTU by the way after 6 days.

Wayne

[instacue]

What no one has been able to solve, is why the notes only stick in DP versions above 4.12 - using the same rig (below)? After reading this and other threads, I don't think that this is just my problem alone. As in my prior post, installing the USB 2.0 PCI card didn't help.

Do the later versions of DP (4.5 and above) with all the added features not allocate enough resources to sending proper MIDI note offs, especially when hitting "Stop", or what? In audio only projects, DP4.61 performs flawlessly - sometimes several days of intense 40 plus track 5.1 audio only sessions & mixes (using many plugins) with no glitches or crashes. As soon as I attempt even the most basic simple MIDI sequence, the notes stick and it's unusable.

Any other ideas?

I'm glad to still have DP 4.12 because the MIDI still works great there...
--DP 4.61, 4.12, Mac G4 Dual 1.4 Gig, 2 Gig ram, Sys 10.3.9, 10.2.8, Aurora Igniter LT pci card, PCI 424, 2408 optical in and out to Apogee AD-8000, Apogee DA16, 3 MTP AV USBs, MTP II, MidiExpress 128. 12 SampleCell cards on Nubus Mac, 2 GigaStudio PCs, Aardsync II word clock house sync, Mach V, Stylus RMX, Atmosphere, Trilogy, SoundSoap, SoundSoap Pro, Altiverb

[zed]

Hi folks,

I've been experiencing the stuck MIDI note problem tonight. When this happens, the "Stop Sounding MIDI notes" function does not work, and the only way to get back down to business is to save my project, QUIT DP and then restart the application and reopen the project (Fortunately this process only takes about 15 seconds on my computer). The notes stick intermittently, usually when I stop a sequence while notes are still playing.

Interestingly, I had this problem a couple of weeks ago, and then it just went away. Nothing has changed in my setup... it seems to just come and go. I am guessing that when I reboot the computer tomorrow the problem will be gone again.

Pretty weird.

Zed

[Kubi]

I had stuck MIDI notes about a year ago, which I finally traced down to my MAudio MIDI drivers. Ever since I disconnected the USB on my two MAudio controllers, trashed the MAudio drivers and ran all my MIDI exclusively thru my MOTU MIDI Express 128, problem disappeared.

Don't know how much this applies to your problems, since I'm still on 10.3.9, and it seems to me that all folks with stuck MIDI notes are on Tiger.

May be worth it to try and create a startup partition with 10.3.9, install DP and see if the problem persists.

[Tobor]

Kubi wrote:

May be worth it to try and create a startup partition with 10.3.9, install DP and see if the problem persists.

I had some promising news today. I received confirmation from a gentleman who was suffering through the same midiclock sync problems as I that everything was running tight in 4.6. The only time I get stuck notes these days is using locate/SPP in midiclock sync.

I am on 10.2.8 and 4.52, but most everything else is running great these days, so don't want to upgrade my main system (4.6 requires 10.3 or above).

I am ready to spring for a new computer, but have pretty much decided to wait for Intel compatibility and get one of the new machines.

So I was wondering about picking up Panther or Tiger in the short run (cheaper than a new computer), as this 'partition plan' could be the ticket. Can I, and how do I, create a partition on my computer (or my external FW drive, for that matter) to run DP4.6, without having to reinstall everything, etc.?

Thanks....

[caseystone]

Hello!

A composer I work with is suffering from some serious stuck note problems now. DP 4.6.1, OS X 10.3.?.

The clue that I have for those diagnosing this problem is that is also happens with MidiOverLan MIDI channels. On his system he gets very frequent stuck notes with the MoL channels AND the MIDI that is on Motu USB MIDI devices.

So, this seems to point to DP itself or CoreMidi and not to USB or the MIDI hardware.

Also, "All Notes Off" does not fix the problem. He has to put the offending track in record and replay the sounding note to make it stop. He also said that a note might stick that had not been PLAYED during the last cycle.


-Casey

ps- if there's not a fix for this soon I may be strangled....
pps- Hi Kevin!

[bradswan]

I also get the stuck notes, but I also get a maddening after hit that seems to increase in intensity as I go along. Sometimes it's a second delay sometimes a few seconds. Makes it very difficult to even use MIDI. I seem to be avoiding it more and more. Motu doesn't seem to have a beat on it--don't know why.

[markwayne]

I also get the stuck notes, but I also get a maddening after hit that seems to increase in intensity as I go along. Sometimes it's a second delay sometimes a few seconds. Makes it very difficult to even use MIDI. I seem to be avoiding it more and more. Motu doesn't seem to have a beat on it--don't know why.

What version of MOTU's drivers are you using. I was also having these exact symptoms unitl I downgraded to the 1.24 MTP drivers. (MOTU has 1.31 up on their web site at the moment.)

So, this seems to point to DP itself or CoreMidi and not to USB or the MIDI hardware.

It's absolutely software related. I can use any other sequencing app installed on my computer and never have any of these issues.

I am also avoiding DP for anything MIDI related for now.

Wayne

[instacue]

"It's absolutely software related. I can use any other sequencing app installed on my computer and never have any of these issues."

Precisely - again, with my same setup DP 4.12 works like a champ for me. Something changed in 4.5 that affected the MIDI performance and MIDI still sticks in 4.61.

If it was hardware then notes would stick in DP 4.12 (they don't).

Maybe DP 5.0 fixes it??

--DP 4.61, 4.12, Mac G4 Dual 1.4 Gig, 2 Gig ram, Sys 10.3.9, 10.2.8, Aurora Igniter LT pci card, PCI 424, 2408 optical in and out to Apogee AD-8000, Apogee DA16, 3 MTP AV USBs, MTP II, MidiExpress 128. 12 SampleCell cards on Nubus Mac, 2 GigaStudio PCs, Aardsync II word clock house sync, Mach V, Stylus RMX, Atmosphere, Trilogy, SoundSoap, SoundSoap Pro, Altiverb