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mhschmieder wrote: As for Evolution Series: South America, it's only $100 so I may buy it after all. I got confused earlier thinking each element was $500 vs. the entire suite.

Looks like the most recent Evolution Series sale ended on 8 December and was up to 40% off.

Sound-on-Sound reviewed the library in August 2011, and admired the seven mic positions and recording quality but complained that Yellow Tools Engine doesn't allow for instrument tuning and that the vendor provided zero information about the instruments sampled. It has since been ported to Kontakt though, so maybe the current version allows tuning (although it now only has four mics vs. the original seven).


Having just re-tried them both just now, I'd say Samba Drums from Wavesfactory is the better kit -- though there is only partial overlap. This is due to how it was recorded, and also it seems more deeply sampled (though neither kit is as deep as Evolution Series).

Percussao do Brasil from Sonokinetic has two mic options (Close and Far), both of which sound too dark, muddy, and reverberant even if I remove the Impulse Response reverb effect. It sounds coarsely recorded also.

Note that Sonokinetic calls their Brasilian Timbau a Timbal; whereas both Wavesfactory and Evolution Series calls theirs a Timba. From what I can tell, Timba is the English form, Timbal the Spanish, and Timbau the Portuguese. And of course, no relation at all to Timbales!

The SOS review is for the old 1st edition(Engine)the current Evolution Percussion ver.2 was reworked in 2013,expanded and ported to Kontakt 5 with added scripts etc.... so imo the SOS review is not totally accurate now........

you might want to look at this thread on GS, the 11th post explains the changes.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/product ... ntakt.html

They put this on sale 2 or 3 times a year,I got it for 40% off during a previous sale last year.

I bought the South America library from Evolution Series tonight and regret it.

Maybe it'll redeem itself on Brasilian Percussion, but the Bongos are very low-res and the Congas are a weird set. Why they did a super-tumbadora while skipping the tumbadora is beyond me, even while including the even rarer re-quinto.

But that's not my problem with this library, which for Bongos and Congas (no Timbales present) provides a lot of articulations and so is unique in at least that one way (and may somehow prove useful on another project as a result).

The issue is that you can't tune anything or dial its resonance frequency or amount. Given that the Bongos and Congas were tuned a bit strangely and that all of the non-close mics are extremely echoic (even at low levels) and not very detailed, I have to wonder at the unnamed instrument sources along with the mics chosen as well as the recording space and the miking techniques.

So, you have to LOVE how they did all that or you can't use it; whereas with BFD Percussion you can tweak it to your heart's content (which I do, believe me).

I am disinclined to buy others in this collection at this point. But maybe I'll decide to make my own preset multis at some point for a "playable" set that has the mics dialed to a tolerable mix.

The included multis aren't very usable for real-time playing or even for MIDI rendering. Only two: a heavily crippled Surdo "set" (only one selectable at a time) and a partial Conga "set" with limited articulations. Why bother?

I picked up the Africa set from Evolution Series today and like it a lot. Partly I think the types of instruments in this particular collection don't suffer from the limitations as they aren't ones you'd typically tune anyway (no skin head instruments vs. the South America collections).

The vendor is very helpful and friendly and wants to hear my concerns with South America, so hopefully they won't be offended by what I wrote. It wasn't meant in disrespect, but was probably written a bit harshly. At any rate I will upgrade to the full collection later, as I suspect the Asia set will also be fine as those instruments don't usually need "tuning" like congas/bongos/etc.

I finally had a chance late tonight, to tweak the Evolution Series congas a bit to get them more to my liking, and was fairly successful in getting a better mic blend and a "tightened" pitch, but have concluded that Kontakt is generally a bad interface for detailed drum and percussion editing compared to dedicated applications like BFD.

Although tuning up by 0.5 cents in Kontakt's global settings can approximate the tuning options in BFD if each conga is loaded separately vs. as a set (I rarely tune them by the same amount), one still is left with the resonance as-is, and that's a problem for me in most contexts. Also, even the close mics are a bit too "roomy" as I go all-the-way dry in BFD with a tiny bit of Ambient mic blend.

I turn off OH and Room for such percussion, and could do that in World Percussion inside Kontakt, but there simply isn't much tweaking beyond that; whereas BFD has way more parameters to adjust than any other drum software or drum libraries (when comparing to ones hosted by generic samplers).

Having said that, it is now clear that Evolution Series is very detailed in the recordings, so if starting from scratch with a new project and just "playing" it, great results could be had, but I quickly get back to the frustration factor I had years ago with my very first conga sound source, which was MOTU Ethno, as the documentation is almost nonexistent and I am quite particular about my articulations when it comes to percussion. Doing it "by ear" doesn't cut it with me; I am quite methodical as I have studied ethnomusicology my entire life (since age 10).

Anyway, for those who don't want to deal with BFD, I'd say Evolution Series is the best thing out there now, for what they cover (and they do cover a lot, but they have fortunately focused more on depth than breadth). Lack of detailed documentation cripples it as a placeholder for eventual live tracks, unfortunately. But it's designed more for Hollywood film score type contextual use anyway.

Here's a Brasilian developer I didn't know about, who have four instruments plus a Glass Marimba, and discounted bundles:

http://muletoneaudio.com/

I can't listen at work so have no idea if it's any good, but my own reasonable Cuica source is VSL's Percussion (orchestral) and it is far from perfect. My other sources are even further from perfect, and I've owned three cuicas (fiberglass, metal, and wood) and don't enjoy playing the real thing at all.

The quica sounded ok IMO, but didn't do an in depth listen, nor gander the articulations offered. They also have a tamborim, timbal & pandeiro. but not much else? Wonder if they ( assume surdo) are in the works.

Haven't had a chance to listen to their demos yet, but the write-ups sound good already, as they were recorded dry (a rarity, outside of BFD and VSL land), and they offer several brands of each instrument in their small collection.

I finally got a chance to listen to the Muletone Audio audio demos.

VERY impressed by the audio quality, the instruments chosen, and the authenticity.

For instance, the Timbal is one made by Contemporanea, which is one of the three best Brasilian brands (one of the other two being Bauer; I forget the third at this point, but some consider Gon Bops to be on par, and they're available in the USA unlike Contemporanea and Bauer).

My main concern is that I think there was a slight translation problem in the English write-up. From the audio demos, I am guessing that "instruments" refers to "articulations" as opposed to having a LOT of articulations of multiple manufacturers.

In other words, the cuica would drive me insane. Vienna Symphonic Library has by far the most articulations of any cuica currently available -- more than I was able to achieve in my futile attempts to play the darn thing myself when I owned one. Also recorded dry, and therefore usable on ANY project.

Some of the other libraries mentioned earlier have more than two articulations but aren't necessarily played or recorded as well as VSL (quite cheap when piecemeal) or this one from Mule Tone (which I fear has only two articulations).

I may decide it's worth the risk, and buy the bundle this weekend. Four of the twelve songs on my current jazz album use some Brasilian percussion and might benefit from the quality of this library suite from Muletone.

I love the Glass Marimba, so was all set to buy the bundle, but the discount didn't kick in, so I wrote to their support desk.

Obviously, it makes no sense that the bundles would not only cost the same as buying a la carte at the regular prices, but the advertised 40% discount was only for the bundles, so I think it's a mistake that there isn't even a penny savings by buying one of the bundles.

I definitely feel it's worth the risk at 40% off for the whole set. At full price, I'd probably buy a la carte, as needed.

Note that the cuica says it has a lot of dynamics, but I think this refers strictly to intensity of playing (maybe) and volume (probably). What I meant earlier is that I think only two pitches were recorded.

VSL's cuica has a phenomenal number of distinct sounds, made by various techniques of "skidding" along the edge, half-damping the sound, etc. But maybe only orchestral players use those techniques?

Heard back from Muletone Audio this morning. I think there was an issue with their website not showing everything properly in Safari on Mac Yosemite. It's supposed to show a coupon code "spring40" that you apply at checkout for the 40% bundle discount.

I decided to buy all six products (the four Brasilian percussion libraries, the Glass Marimba, and the Strashed sound design library of percussive sounds), as the price is so low vs. just buying the main products. Downloading now; won't likely have a chance to try them until late tonight or tomorrow.

Although the Milestone Audio Cuica library doesn't have as many pitches and playing styles as Vienna Symphonic Library, I think that likely reflects on folk/jazz playing vs. orchestral needs.

This library has a fair number of articulations and strokes, as well as some pitch variation beyond just the two basic high/low pitches, and loops as well (which can help with authenticity of playing, but I generally don't like audio loops for a number of reasons having to do with audio editing artifacts, and tend to convert to MIDI with Melodyne and then use in my own way).

The other libraries do have a lot of variety in them, and some do have multiple manufacturers for contrast. So these libraries are indeed priced appropriately; even a bargain I would say.

I can't get into them too deep during working hours (I'm at home today but that doesn't matter). First impression is that these might not be the most deeply sampled libraries, but are likely the most authentic and are deep enough. I can report in more detail after trying them on my jazz album in place of other sound sources, and more fairly on new parts I didn't get around to yet (but composed).

I came really close to switching to the Milestone Audio Cuica for my latin jazz tracks, but ended up sticking with VSL for one primary reason: overall pitch.

For this particular music, I am tending to go for lower-pitched cuica sounds. And though both libraries contain many articulations and a lot of dynamics, the VSL library is overall lower-pitched.

I will probably use the Milestone Audio library for future projects, and might make use of some of its combined articulations as they don't have the same issue as typical "audio drum loops" due to how the cuica is played. But I don't want to have to re-think my cuica parts on an album I'm almost done with.

In terms of quality, the Milestone Audio library is the best, having deeper sampling than anything else out there for the equivalent instruments and also offering different samples based on how long of a sustain is desired.

But the cuica is very much in the background on my current album, so I can live with less variety of recorded note lengths and my having set the sustain length via MIDI note length.

If the cuica was more of a forward element in these songs, I would definitely feel more comfortable with the Milestone Audio library and would put in the extra effort to switch to it, as it sounds the most realistic and organic once you get into longer playing patterns vs. occasional one-off hits.

I will probably make use of some of the other libraries from their package tomorrow or next week, as I want more Brasilian percussion vs. western drum set on a few songs. I am gigging almost non-stop all weekend though, so I have a feeling I won't be checking back in until next week.