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Scott is awesome! I find his videos entertaining.
Before Groove3 he had his own youtube channel and his videos were kick-ass entertaining to watch and learn. Back then he even cursed a lot in the videos witch gave it a loose tone IMO. Different from everybody else in the tutorial world.
Of course, when Groove3 picked him up he couldn't use curse words anymore.

cheers Scott

A teacher who consistently calls attention to his own "awesomeness" is just wasting my time. Please keep your dazzling personality to yourself. I don't want Guy Fieri: I want a real chef.

The accent doesn't bother me, until you add the stupid custom track icons of firearms, and then the whole package is repellent to me.

And seriously: "curse words?" Oh, yeah, that really improves the learning experience. (I'm no prude and I swear like a sailor, but not when I'm making a presentation, because that is bush league.)

You may or may not like his presentation style, but I will say this about Scott - he knows his stuff. I've picked up lots of little Logic related tips from his videos. Plus he's a hell of a nice guy

Eli - I have a general question for you if you have a moment. I have used Logic some over the past year after watching your Logic 9 Explained videos back when I had an all access pass (and DP was still 32-bit). I retained some of the knowledge, and I plan on buying your video during the sale.

inevitably I will start a project in Logic and then get stuck and have to move back to DP. Obviously I just need to get down and woodshed on Logic, get your videos, and if I want to go further I'll buy Apple's two Logic books.

But..

What advice, if any, would you give to a long time DP user who wants to be able to use Logic too? (besides the linear vs non-linear chunk topic). I don't know that you have anything in particular to say, but I'm just throwing this question out there in case you do. You don't have to go into detail or anything.

I like the way Logic does some things, but some things about it are "illogical", to me. And at some point I could see myself switching back and forth between the two id the situation called for it.

Thanks for your time Eli.

Nightwatch, I've had the same problem. Most of the people I work with use Logic, and so I have to be able to do the basics there, and I keep thinking that I should be able to just finish some of these projects in Logic.

I have Eli's Logic tutorials, and you can't help noticing he gets around the application without much trouble. But the concepts are different, and I think that's the key.

Just bought the DP8 Advanced, plus Eli's Kontakt and MachFive 3 while I was there. Great stuff, and all on sale.

I learned Logic this year, and it is very different from DP. I still like DP's approaches to most things better, but I can see why so many people use Logic Pro.

My advice would be to go through the Logic manual (even the manual takes a different approach than MOTU does), and maybe buy a copy of this book:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Power-Logic-P ... =Logic+Pro

Or, for more in-depth understanding, this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Pro-Trainin ... =Logic+Pro

The second one comes with a CD-ROM with practice files that match the exercises in the book. Also, the author of the second book moderates a very good Logic Pro forum at logicprohelp.com.

Great thread and good suggestions.

I decided to just grab the All Access Pass to Groove 3 for $99 (Black November price, don't know what it is normally) and go to school for the year. New Year's Resolution early!

Lots to learn in so many areas of software I own and use, but haven't had the chance to even begin to master.

Tobor wrote:Great thread and good suggestions.

I decided to just grab the All Access Pass to Groove 3 for $99 (Black November price, don't know what it is normally) and go to school for the year. New Year's Resolution early!

Lots to learn in so many areas of software I own and use, but haven't had the chance to even begin to master.

I think it normally sells for $250
I grabbed it about 2 weeks ago and need to use this but haven't as of yet.
So many apps I need to learn to use better.........
I hated school growing up lol
Another reason I play drums?
Great November deal,I'm glad I got it,now I need to actually utilize it!!!

nightwatch wrote:Eli - I have a general question for you.....
What advice, if any, would you give to a long time DP user who wants to be able to use Logic too? (besides the linear vs non-linear chunk topic).

Hi nightwatch,

It's tough moving between DAWs. I struggle with it regularly during the course of various video series. There's no one easy answer. But here is what I have found: When you become proficient in a DAW, any DAW, you inevitably integrate workflows and concepts that are non program specific, and applicable to the general process of making music in any DAW. But also, each DAW has it's own unique features, and some slightly (or not so slightly) different ways of doing things. You need to learn to recognize these and not fight against them trying to fit a square peg (your thinking from a previous DAW) into a round hole (the new DAW). You need to knwo when to "surrender" and just let go your old way of thinking regarding how a specific feature or function "should" work. Some things translate very smoothly, others don't. The trick is recognizing this when it is happening.

Now, I know this all sounds kind of vague and nu-agy. But really, it's about a combination of learning how to do the basic bread and butter things you already know you need to be able to do, plus "giving in" to the new apps ways of doing them, plus embrace the other new features.

I'll try and give some examples: As an experienced DAW user, you know you are going to need to navigate through the timeline by bars and beats, and sometimes finer divisions, you'll need to punch in from time to time, you'll need to copy certain sections of music from here to there, etc. These common functions exist in all DAWs and are usually not too dissimilar. You already understand these concepts, you just need to find out how to do them in the new DAW.

Here's another: you know you'll need to create some sort of aux tracks for sub grouping or as send destinations when you are mixing. You know you will need to set up some sends and feed them to the desired aux, etc. So, you already understand the workflow, you just need to study up on how it is implemented in the new DAW. And EMBRACE THE DIFFERENCES! Don't fight them. By leaving yourself fully open to learning how to execute these tasks in the new DAW you will find the differences may open up possibilities you hadn't considered previously. You already have the blueprint, but the tools themselves sometimes affect the design of the house your building, or stimulate you in different ways.

In terms of Chunks. There is simply nothing like it in Logic. So don't fight it. You just have to accept that you will not work that way in Logic. Period. If this is too great a sacrifice, don't switch!

One last bit to this apparent rant! Don't get overwhelmed by the seeming complexity of the unknown. You don't need to learn and use it all your first day. When I'm learning a new DAW, if I can just figure out how to open and close a couple of windows the first day or two, I'm happy But seriously, you don't need to know every nuance of beat mapping or global tracks or the signature and key change window, or Sculpture programing (Logic things) just to be able to get started jumping in and making music. Take it slow, in small digestible bits.

Hope this helps!

Tobor wrote:Great thread and good suggestions.

I decided to just grab the All Access Pass to Groove 3 for $99 (Black November price, don't know what it is normally) and go to school for the year. New Year's Resolution early!

Lots to learn in so many areas of software I own and use, but haven't had the chance to even begin to master.

I did the same. Looking to improve my understanding of DP, Logic Pro, Kontakt, etc. Ninja-style mastery is the goal.

And Eli is exactly right about not forcing the process. It took me months of using Logic exclusively for work and going through books and manuals in the evening to get fluid with it, and I'm still far from the kind of no-brainer relationship I have with DP.

Having been a Logic user for years I would say the biggest hurdles, (beyond the fact that both DP and Logic have menus in weird places, and group functions in said menus in some sort of subjective way that I find strange) are the major pages.

In Logic there is no Track Overview or Sequence Editor, just the Arrange Page.

The Arrange page covers the TO and SE except for one caveat, to view multiple MIDI notes you will need to use multiple Matrix Editors (piano roll / Graphic Editor windows).

The Environment is like Bundles and other basic functions of DP task windows, mostly it's not that big of a deal if you don't use it. The one thing I ended up using it for was to get a true mixing board layout that reflected what I needed to see in the mixer instead of what is in the Arrange page.

Windows in general are all tied together with the Link etc. buttons and are pretty useful in that sense. Maybe slightly better than MOTU second guessing you with the dependancies that are inherent in DP that way.

The Environment in effect creates the feeling that there are two mixers, like how a Logic person would be confused at first by the relationship between the TO and SE.

Hope that helps.

Michael Canavan wrote: to view multiple MIDI notes you will need to use multiple Matrix Editors (piano roll / Graphic Editor windows).

Hi Michael,

That was a very well put summary of some of the differences. One small correction though. I'm not sure the last version you used of Logic, but it is a simple thing now to view the contents of multiple MIDI regions within a single Piano Roll View window in Logic.

You simply select the multiple regions before opening the Piano Roll View. And there are some nice color based functions to display the notes of the different regions in their Arrange Window colors instead of displaying the note colors based on velocity; which is very useful when viewing multiple regions simultaneously in one PRV window.

Cool. Ok. Thanks for chiming in Eli and everyone. I'm a fairly technical person (good about reading manuals, figuring things out and even teaching others), but even more than that I really enjoy getting to the creative process, which sometimes I'll rush. But I'll make sure to find a good pace, learn Logic for Logic, embrace the differences, and try to enjoy it!

There are certain things I like better in each DAW. Sometimes I just enjoy seeing a different interface, or prefer how a feature is implemented differently.

Thanks again for your time!

Eli Krantzberg wrote:

Michael Canavan wrote: to view multiple MIDI notes you will need to use multiple Matrix Editors (piano roll / Graphic Editor windows).

Hi Michael,

That was a very well put summary of some of the differences. One small correction though. I'm not sure the last version you used of Logic, but it is a simple thing now to view the contents of multiple MIDI regions within a single Piano Roll View window in Logic.

You simply select the multiple regions before opening the Piano Roll View. And there are some nice color based functions to display the notes of the different regions in their Arrange Window colors instead of displaying the note colors based on velocity; which is very useful when viewing multiple regions simultaneously in one PRV window.

Should have made that more clear I guess. I was talking about multiple windows VS a single window with multiple tracks layered over each other, which if you're looking for an errant early or late MIDI note is going to be overlapped with multiple tracks in a single editor. This is were Logic is going to need to use a multiple piano roll / Matrix editors whereas in DP the Sequence Editor will do.
The Arrange in Logic basically covers track and (some MIDI) automation and region type editing, and audio editing, but not detailed MIDI editing or viewing. Conversely doing region or big edits in the Sequence Editor is clunky compared to using the Tracks Overview.

Honestly this is why it was so disappointing that Traction's idea of a single window that you zoom into to edit both audio and MIDI in never took off. Though I found Traction clunky in other ways the basic concept was good. IMO though I prefer DP's take on track editing in an arrangement style page over Logic's, both are awkward compared to a single all inclusive window.