Notice to the DP bashers

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Re: Notice to the DP bashers

Post by James Steele »

Armageddon wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a negative post go unpunished on here (including my own),
Then you haven't looked very hard. Unless you're talking about a "rant." Negative posts abound and I have other things to do, believe it or not then try and go around countering critical posts. My objection is and always has been the mindless scorched-earth rants that anybody with a modicum of common sense can tell that there's more going on with a user's system.

Just another example are the posts that end up being user error where the OP never bothers to come back and say "Hey... that fixed it" or "It turned out I had XYZ plug-in that was causing the problem." They just leave orphaned topics here. Sometimes I prod them... "What was the outcome? Did you try the suggestions." Sometimes I get "Oh yeah, it fixed it thanks." Then I can add [RESOLVED] to a topic header so one doesn't get the impression that there are just nothing but problems with DP.

Oh... and am I saying it's perfect... that there aren't issues? No. Never said that. My patience however is running thin for rants that I think blow the issues out of proportion or allege issues when I know full well that there are likely other problems going on.
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Re: Notice to the DP bashers

Post by Shooshie »

bezzy wrote:OMG This just sad. I really think you guys are out to lunch when you say people are trying to ruin MOTU's reputation. Clearly people have had many issues with DP. The Mac is a system that just works, you guys know it runs on UNIX, Apple controls all the hardware that goes into the machine. Seriously how can one Apple computer differ from another of the same type. If DP ran on windows machines I could see the point of the its your machines problem.
So maybe some people are having problems and it is the software and not computer. Sure many people use DP very successfully but for me it has been to glitchy with way to many hangs, you know the spinning beach ball.
Anyway on my Intel Mac every other piece of software I use seems to work quite well, of course all software has some bugs, but when I use DP my computer it has a problem????
Photoshop works,Illustrator works,Cubase works,Logic works and every other software I have used generally works quite well, my plugins all work as well.
Oh wait I forgot about religion entering into the equation.
MOTU rocks, DP is the best, it is very stable, fast and works with every plugin I throw at it.
I guess I am banned or deleted for telling the truth.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and just assume that you're not trolling. Having made that assumption, I can only conclude that you really don't know what we're talking about. We're not talking about people who come here talking about problems with DP -- we complain ourselves, often and loudly, when things go wrong, and we're very tolerant of others' complaints, when they're well founded and the intent is not malicious.

Maybe you haven't experienced the waves of bashers who come through now and then -- usually around the time of a new MOTU release. Their intent is to make everyone scared to install the new upgrade. They introduce enough chaos into the system to accomplish exactly that. I just went through an email exchange with a good friend who was scared -- literally afraid -- to install Snow Leopard. He asked me question after question, because he was afraid of losing his system to software incompatibilities. I talked him through it, and after about three days of this he's finally happily running DP6.02 in Snow Leopard. Why was he afraid? Well, personal experience gives him enough bad memories to lend credence to the trolls when they come through saying "don't install it! Everything's busted! Wait until the reports come in!"

Of course, that's not bad advice: wait until the reports come in. The trouble is that nearly everyone who has posted on Snow Leopard had written glowing reports of how it improved everything, and yet it still took only a couple of naysayers to make my friend afraid to install it. Now, he's a pretty sophisticated user. What about the casual users who "just don't want any trouble?"

We're not talking about legitimate gripes! We're talking about trolling. Bashing. Coming through here with an agenda. On the other hand, people who come in frustrated and yelling, but wanting help? We're MORE than happy to help them. They don't get their posts deleted, or reprimanded, or anything of a kind.

There's a huge difference, and it's pretty easy to tell the two different types apart. Maybe once in a while someone goes overboard and berates a legitimate user who is just upset. Then again, maybe legitimate users sometimes are upset enough to go overboard and threaten to leave forever, DP sucks, and all that stuff. Well, it happens. Once we get it all sorted out, I think everyone understands each other. But really, those aren't the people we're after. (though everyone really ought to TRY to control their emotions when posting publicly about the problems they are having. It's hard enough to deal with the problems to find a solution. Having to play counselor to the user himself is really unnecessary, and asking a lot of us. But we've done a lot of that, too.

Please, don't turn what we're saying into something else. You've exaggerated it and applied it to everyone. It only applies to those whose main interest is slander, rumors, piracy, or just trolling to get everyone upset.

Which I'm assuming you're not doing.

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Re: Notice to the DP bashers

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

James Steele wrote:
Armageddon wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a negative post go unpunished on here (including my own),
Then you haven't looked very hard.
Just search my posts, you'll find plenty! Yet James keeps me on as a moderator. No one is more surprised by that than I and I am thankful to James not bumping me off the site, let alone trusting me to moderate and allowing me to continue as part of the gang. That speaks volumes.
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Re: Notice to the DP bashers

Post by James Steele »

I have no intention of trying to muzzle valid criticism here. And MLC has made numerous valid criticisms and backed it up with calm explanations. I myself very publicly complained about the state of affairs with the problem combination of PPC/DP 6.02/Leopard and certain Native Instruments plug-ins. I made a big stink when I had to spend a day downgrading my G5 to Tiger because DP was the only DAW I was aware of that broke KontaktPlayer 2 on a G5 running Leopard. Logic didn't.

Fortunately, I got the Komplete 5 blowout deal and Kontakt 3 and 3.5 both work in DP 6.02 with the G5/Leopard combo. Nonetheless, my AlphaTrack display still doesn't update properly in DP 6.02 on my G5/Leopard system when it worked fine in Tiger. Frontier politely said that's a MOTU issue in this thread:

http://frontierdesign.com/forums/topic/ ... pcleopard/

And I'm disappointed about it, but I figure with my G5 machine I'm just S.O.L. And money is tight and I don't have an Intel machine in my near future, so I just have to accept it. Fortunately, it's not something that keeps me from being able to get work done.
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Re: Notice to the DP bashers

Post by syntonica »

billf wrote:
James Steele wrote:Also, not that this has ever happened on this board, but I have to wonder if in other industries people who work for a competitor either with or without their employer's sanction, attempt to sabotage another company by flooding forums with reports of a product's problems and spreading disinformation.
Astroturfing
Absolutely happens. The company I previously worked for was a victim of it. Negative posts were tracked back by IP addresses to their competitors! Soooo... our Marketing department, in their fine wisdom, instructed everyone in the company to go home and make positive posts from our home IP addresses. :roll:

Needless to say, following up juvenile behaviour with more juvenile behaviour is not the answer and I politely declined. It never occurred to them to try and make decent products like they used to with decent support.

So, the negative posts could indeed be by persons who merely wish to trash MOTU and DP and may not actually even be by DP owners/users. Perhaps James can follow up on a couple of IP addresses if he's bored some day and see where the posts are coming from.

Until then, dear readers, remember to read everything on the innertubes with a grain of salt. :wink:
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Re: Notice to the DP bashers

Post by Guitar Gaz »

Its a democracy (I guess) and you get all sorts of annoying things like this in a democracy - generally this a friendly helpful forum - a bit cliquey to the outsider or occasional poster - but the most polite forum I take part in. We have all had rants at times (should have seen some of mine to Line 6 when the update to Pod Farm stopped all my plugins and DP working and cost me at least 3 hours to get everything back to working again) - people do get frustrated and angry. DP is particularly remote and frustrating - James is doing their job for them.

Just stay cool - I try not to post to any forum very late at night with any alcohol in my system but some people don't and their emotions run a way with them (booze or no booze). Secondly I try not to reply to rants till I can be unemotional. People are usually a bit contrite later on especially if you solve their problem.

Me - I am still on DP5 as I have been put off upgrading by much of the posts about DP6 - and I will be investigating Propellerhead Record alongside my Reason. Motu may be worried and should be - perhaps the problem solving shouldn't be left to James and Shooshie. This is not negative - just truth. Usually ranters and negative posters will go elsewhere and be negative there too - usually they are reluctant to read manuals or take advice - and then jump in and rant. Rise above it like the true professionals you are......
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Re: Notice to the DP bashers

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Guitar Gaz wrote:Its a democracy (I guess) and you get all sorts of annoying things like this in a democracy...
Actually, no - this forum is NOT a democracy. It's essentially a private club and as such is a dictatorship. It's not even an oligarchy. James OWNS the place and can do what he likes. Unlike a true dictatorship, members are free to leave at any time. But no free speech is protected. Threats and obscene behavior and posts are deleted. And trolls with agendas are expelled.

But it is a nation unto itself and there are wonderful benefits. You just have to play by the rules. :mrgreen:

OR ELSE! :twisted:
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Re: Notice to the DP bashers

Post by newrigel »

9 times out of 10, they are just amatures that didn't buy DP and come here because they don't have any common sense (or the manual) to figure anything out on their own so they get frustrated and take it out on us.
DP should have a sticker on the front of the box saying... "FOR PROFESSIONAL USE ONLY" :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
It's just a drag James has to deal with all this BS.


By the way James... I just received my 460 back from it's modifications and I have to say,
"this is the most beautiful sounding mic (for the $$) I've ever owned or used in my life."
I'm selling my CADs and ribbons!
It's mind blowing!
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Re: Notice to the DP bashers

Post by waxman »

What mic mod???
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Re: Notice to the DP bashers

Post by Guitar Gaz »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:
Guitar Gaz wrote:Its a democracy (I guess) and you get all sorts of annoying things like this in a democracy...
Actually, no - this forum is NOT a democracy. It's essentially a private club and as such is a dictatorship. It's not even an oligarchy. James OWNS the place and can do what he likes. Unlike a true dictatorship, members are free to leave at any time. But no free speech is protected. Threats and obscene behavior and posts are deleted. And trolls with agendas are expelled.

But it is a nation unto itself and there are wonderful benefits. You just have to play by the rules. :mrgreen:

OR ELSE! :twisted:
Well if that's the case, when you invite people in you may not always like what they do - keep it cliquey then and for "professionals" only if that's what you prefer......
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Re: Notice to the DP bashers

Post by James Steele »

Guitar Gaz wrote:I will be investigating Propellerhead Record alongside my Reason. Motu may be worried and should be...
I don't think MOTU is really going to be impacted by "Record." And I think reports of MOTU's demise are premature as they always have been. You should go "investigate" Record, like I "investigated" Logic, Studio One, etc. and then I'll meet you back at DP7 again.
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Re: Notice to the DP bashers

Post by Guitar Gaz »

James Steele wrote:
Guitar Gaz wrote:I will be investigating Propellerhead Record alongside my Reason. Motu may be worried and should be...
I don't think MOTU is really going to be impacted by "Record." And I think reports of MOTU's demise are premature as they always have been. You should go "investigate" Record, like I "investigated" Logic, Studio One, etc. and then I'll meet you back at DP7 again.
Well I investigated Logic and still use DP, I use Reason but don't like the sequencer, but Record may have more for guitarists with Line 6 onboard - I still think DP has missed a trick in not having a decent set of guitar amp sims . If it did, I wouldn't really look at other systems for recording guitar. Silly I know but I think Record and Propellerhead have hit on something - Garageband was a start but this Record/Reason package goes a step further.
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Re: Notice to the DP bashers

Post by Eleventh Hour Sound »

Guitar Gaz wrote:
James Steele wrote:
Guitar Gaz wrote:I will be investigating Propellerhead Record alongside my Reason. Motu may be worried and should be...
I don't think MOTU is really going to be impacted by "Record." And I think reports of MOTU's demise are premature as they always have been. You should go "investigate" Record, like I "investigated" Logic, Studio One, etc. and then I'll meet you back at DP7 again.
Well I investigated Logic and still use DP, I use Reason but don't like the sequencer, but Record may have more for guitarists with Line 6 onboard - I still think DP has missed a trick in not having a decent set of guitar amp sims . If it did, I wouldn't really look at other systems for recording guitar. Silly I know but I think Record and Propellerhead have hit on something - Garageband was a start but this Record/Reason package goes a step further.
Check out DP7. I love PropellerHeads products, but you're doing going to be able to compare Record to DP. Two different products.
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Re: Notice to the DP bashers

Post by Guitar Gaz »

Well DP7 looks more like it - I confess I haven't taken much notice of DP7 as I am not even on DP6 yet. But the amp sims fit the bill - shame we had to wait so long but yes I agree this seems to be a good upgrade. It probably makes more sense for me to stick with DP - but I will be checking out Record. But I am encouraged by the advert for DP7 - of course either way I need to upgrade my Mac - here we go again.......
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Re: Notice to the DP bashers

Post by Shooshie »

Guitar Gaz wrote:Well DP7 looks more like it - I confess I haven't taken much notice of DP7 as I am not even on DP6 yet. But the amp sims fit the bill - shame we had to wait so long but yes I agree this seems to be a good upgrade. It probably makes more sense for me to stick with DP - but I will be checking out Record. But I am encouraged by the advert for DP7 - of course either way I need to upgrade my Mac - here we go again.......
The changes in DP7 are extensive and impressive. I don't even do guitars, so the guitar stomp boxes don't mean much to me, but the rest of the changes do. DP7 should be worth the price, and then some.

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