MOTUnation.com

The most "telling" thing about it is that people are interested in where things are going-- to discover what's cooking under Apple's bonnet in terms of their own concept of how a DAW should work.

For me, it's less about external features and cosmetics. It has always been the inner workings of DP and its oddities that have puzzled me. For years, and it's no sercret, people have talked about Logic being more CPU efficient. This site was loaded at one time with threads about CPU spikes in DP. Where Logic's GUI generated the most complaints, it follows that the new version's revamped GUI (and lower price) would afford more people the opportunity to see how Apple's unique marriage of hardware with software and operating system are intended to cooperate.

As it stands, Logic is just different than DP. The list of features that I'd consider "better" in Logic is extremely short. Where things are about even, I'll opt to use DP every time just because DP for me is much more intuitive in form.

One thing that can be done in Logic that simply cannot be done in DP is to access Logic's plugins. Conversely, Logic can't use DP's plugins. The benefits are quite complimentary.

In function, DP does need some work. Some of the issues people have with DP are not earning it any extra points at the moment, but I also believe that history dictates that all apps have their own list of caveats and hurdles.

But as OSX and the Mac continue to evolve, so will DP. Yes, Leopard is on the way and certainly MOTU is dealing with DP compatibility for 10.5. Unless MOTU says otherwise, I must believe that this is true. In any case, whether or not everyone is going to jump into Leopard right away is another matter from what MOTU is doing. Development continues even as users wait for the green light from other users.

But I wonder if these chats would be nearly this energetic and enduring were ProTools or some other DAW were at issue instead of Logic.

i suspect there will always be two (or three)-timers as long as daw x lacks features that daw y has. personally, it'd take something like nuendological performer to really cover all the bases for me in the ways i'd like them covered...there are things i really love about each, but also find each lacking in some really annoying way.
at this point, i think there's a lot of infatuation, as new users of logic are getting their feet wet with a new toy. it is fun, like flirting with a new girl in town. it probably won't destroy a marriage, unless things are really wrong with the marriage to begin with. but people have been two-timing with pt for ages...and people have gone from either side to the other...so i don't know how much i'd really worry about it.
it's a pretty heavy time for daws..a lot of killer stuff is hitting the shelves. i think that the most likely switchers will still wait and see how motu answers with the next iteration of dp before they decide, or are forced to. the solid majority will most will probably remain two-timers.

To a large degree every other daw (including Logic, and Protools which I both use) will remain on the peripheral.
Since many of the people Ive worked with use Logic and Protools it's
in my estimation) wise to know each software at least well enough to
work efficiently in it.
DP is my go to app for post work.

kelldammit wrote:...it'd take something like nuendological performer to really cover all the bases for me..

LOL!! I think we should officially start a kelldammitionary!!

kelldammit wrote: at this point, i think there's a lot of infatuation, as new users of logic are getting their feet wet with a new toy. it is fun, like flirting with a new girl in town. it probably won't destroy a marriage, unless things are really wrong with the marriage to begin with.

Bingo! Fantastic analogy, kell.

kelldammit wrote: it's a pretty heavy time for daws..a lot of killer stuff is hitting the shelves. i think that the most likely switchers will still wait and see how motu answers with the next iteration of dp before they decide, or are forced to. the solid majority will most will probably remain two-timers.

Even more importantly, for those who have no intention of getting another DAW, all DP users will always be interested in how MOTU answers with its next iteration. Just as doublers may weigh a potential switch, the DP faithful will continue to assess the best time to update to a later version of DP.

Like sdfalk mentions, the necessity to stay compatible rather than "competitive" is critical when participating in digital audio world as a whole. In that light, it's a good thing that running a harem of DAWs is still legal!

I find this thread very helpful, and I appreciate everyone's posts on their experiences using both programs, and how to make them work together. It's one of the more helpful threads I've read on this forum, out of many other helpful ones.

Just wondering this, though, because my curiosity has gotten the better of me: Why all the speculation and posts about who's going to buy and use either DP or Logic? Does it really matter to a user of one or both programs what others decide? Is it just fun to speculate? or is there some betting going on that I don't know about?

Thank you

Oh James I hope Steve jobs is not lurking. Don't give him a reason to co-opt all of DP.

wurliuchi wrote:Just wondering this, though, because my curiosity has gotten the better of me: Why all the speculation and posts about who's going to buy and use either DP or Logic?

Generally speaking, we all come here to get clues from others on improving productivity and such. That could mean some unusual disc utility that facilitates drive cloning, directory rebuilding, or something else that may otherwise make keeping projects and files organized and in good working order.

In this case, it just so happens to be the other major Mac-only DAW. I think that the discussion is generated by the same curiosity that inspired your question. If someone here whose posts I've read for years is using Logic, I'd like to know why and how they're using it.

wurliuchi wrote: Does it really matter to a user of one or both programs what others decide?

Is it just fun to speculate? or is there some betting going on that I don't know about?

Thank you

Most of us have no idea what goes on in the world of other users except what they may post, but as we work independently of one another we're always sharing thoughts and ideas. If you have a certain amount of respect or admiration for other members based on their posts, it is fascinating to learn how people make the best use of whatever tools they have-- be a plugin or be it another DAW in conjunction with DP.

It is fun, as all good communication and fellowship should be.

But I still ponder what degree some of DP's current bugs factor into the necessity of a DP user getting into or even asking about Logic 8. Another factor may be, as stated before, client compatibility. Some clients only use Logic, so having Logic facilitates matters in this regard.

The full price of Logic has also been mentioned as an attraction. For $500, there's a LOT of software in a single package. Most of my third-party plugins cost that much or more and contain less. For those who've been using Logic for a while, the $200 upgrade fee was a no-brainer.

It doesn't feel like a result of a passing cult fad. We've grown to trust the advice people have given about DP and other software on the forum, so when someone posts some observation about *any* software there's a certain implicit trust in that particular person's word which holds considerable water.

Some of us need DP to be desperately updated for different reasons. That need may have inspired peeking into "the neighbor's garden", so to speak, for at least a temporary solution. We've agreed that we love DP, but we also recognize that there's no one DAW to rule them all.

I still say Logic 8's importance rests in its OS, hardware, and software development all coming from essentially the same source. One just doesn't find inherent compatibility as tight elsewhere. I know of no other computer manufacturer who is also making a major DAW and its own OS. It's pretty remarkable, actually.

With Leopard on the way, I will make the brave suggestion that Logic may be the first DAW on the Mac to fully utilize 64-bit threading capabilties. That alone will be a MAJOR step forward for the Mac in general.

But much of this is akin to a person watching the news or reading the paper daily. On the surface, there is little besides the weather and traffic that is directly related to what goes on in our individual circles. But all news has its impact one way or another. One is either bored by it, moved by it, inspired by it, or motivated by it. Finding out what you *don't* want is just as important, imho.

Staying informed doesn't always mean getting caught up in every whirlwind that comes along. It can, however, help people to avoid the pitfalls of such whirlwinds and to assess the pros and cons. I don't know what I'd do without the feedback from this place because where DP is concerned there are few other resources I know which speak so directly to my situation in all its forms.

wurliuchi wrote:I find this thread very helpful, and I appreciate everyone's posts on their experiences using both programs, and how to make them work together. It's one of the more helpful threads I've read on this forum, out of many other helpful ones.

Just wondering this, though, because my curiosity has gotten the better of me: Why all the speculation and posts about who's going to buy and use either DP or Logic? Does it really matter to a user of one or both programs what others decide? Is it just fun to speculate? or is there some betting going on that I don't know about?

Thank you

I'd like to say that this thread was the impetus for me to work through the file transfer process to begin with. And certainly the intent is to help others.

What I found to be very helpful was someone's presentation of a problem, followed by sharing the steps taken to reach to desired outcome. The forum experience at it's best.

Thanks James for hosting this incredible resource.

Regarding the speculation, a couple of things come to mind:
1. As a guitar player, one is never enough. I am still amazed at the mystery of my fingers playing something never before in my consciousness when checking out some guitar in a local shop. So I've ended up with a small collection. All of them get played every few months. But the LGX-SA is the main stay for recording. Ok, long winded way of saying that each application may be more suited for different functions. It's pretty powerful to hear (read) shoosie's comments about Logics ease of set time to record his piano improvs.

2. Maybe there is some fear of competitive forces driving a venerable product and it's maker of the market. Too many examples of that.

I think the main themes will boil down (Yes. It's the Halloween season kiddies!) to those who only use DP and like it that way, and, the multi-turf types who like the options afforded.
Cheers.

DP to Logic: SMF first, then import OMF or AFF. Done.

I do have one burning question: What is the most efficient way to set up VIs when transferring files???

It's just a matter of track assignments when using Mach Fives performances, and MSI & PlugSound Pros "multis". Not sure what other VI offer.

So perhaps I need to make a few DP templates for a scenario such as: Sequence MIDI in Logic. Take a coffee break. Import SMF into DP. Copy and paste the tracks to the template sequence with VIs already in place??? Does this make sense?

What about going from DP to Logic? Many choices for VI. I'm still not clear on how the Logic multi thing works.

logic multitimbral or multi-output?
both?
msi seems to run way WAY better in 8 than in 7, and the multi-outs do work.

The latest issue of Soundonsound has a review of L8. Quite interesting, as the reviewer wasn't blown away, but actually brings the whole debate to reality of what L8 can and can't do.

I just got my copy of L Studio (thru a friend at apple, 30% off - who wouldn't buy this?), and played with it for a couple days. I also installed NI Komplete 5, and these (NI) are the soft synths/samplers to have, no hands down, IMHO. Certain soft synths, such as Albino 3 seemed to only show using one processor on my Quad G5 when using L8, and when i would play a lot of notes, this would overload the one processor it used when using L8 (set to 128 buffer) - clicks and pops

Now, as the dust settles, and as a long time DP user, I find DPs TO, sequence window (for audio editing) and MIDI editing much nicer to use. All it comes down to for me is for DP to be more efficient, and update/add more high end plugins/soft synths - this is ultimately L8's attraction.

My favorite things in the Logic studio bundle are Waveburner (so intuitive for mastering/Cd burning) and the Jam Packs. I will play with Soundtrack Pro on some jingles I've been doing, and it looks like it will be great as well. So, at least right now, L8 is more like a really nice new toy to me than a choice over DP.

Just been browsing the Apple Loops folders that come with Logic Studio, and other than the Jam Packs, there's also some incredible loops that come with Soundtrack Pro as well. We can retire - anyone who knows how to copy and paste can score a movie or a jingle with this stuff (well, I might be exaggerating a bit)...

I just got my Logic studio box in the mail today... I can tell you one thing for sure, DP's install process is much better than Logic 8. Installing 8 DVD's of content is taking forever!!!

j/k

I actually only had to pay $199 because I had logic 6 a few years ago in college. I moved away from it because it was to damn cumbersome and sdrawkcaB to get anything done! I could have spent 6 months getting into the logic workflow, but intstead I opted for a real, straightforward DAW. Plus it crashed on me when I was using it live a few times, so I lost patience.

I always regreted ditching it entirely beacuse fo the awesome instruments and plugins, but was not willing to deal with the stability and clunkiness issues. It looks as though they've cleaned those up, so it is worth $200 to find out and also get some nice content.

DP is very deep and viable program, and it will definately be where I still spend most of my time. I probably won't have even been tempted to get L8 if DP had better MCU support and could do AU automation properly. I do a lot of work with Komplete4 and that has been a major thorn for me in DP.

I am interested to try porting over my projects in OMF and seeing how they do. I will report in if I get any hickups!

PS. DP rules

jlaudon wrote:I also installed NI Komplete 5, and these (NI) are the soft synths/samplers to have, no hands down, IMHO. Certain soft synths, such as Albino 3 seemed to only show using one processor on my Quad G5 when using L8, and when i would play a lot of notes, this would overload the one processor it used when using L8 (set to 128 buffer) - clicks and pops

i don't think that has anything to do with logic vs dp, to be honest. from what i understand, a vi should be presented as its own thread (unless the coders were slick enough to write it as a multithreaded process). osx decides which cpu it's going to assign that thread to, not the daw. that single cpu then bears the brunt of that plugin. so, in theory, it should behave that way regardless of daw. if you light up osx's cpu meters while dp is running, i'm fairly certain you'd see the same behavior.
the ni cpu hit is pretty minimal, so they're probably behaving in exactly the same fashion as albino regarding cpu useage...you just may not notice because albino will draw a LOT more cpu. either that, or the folks at ni are making multithreading vi's (which would be very cool, and hopefully more people follow suit!). you could probably check this in the cpu meter somewhere...


kell

kelldammit wrote:logic multitimbral or multi-output?
both?

Yes

This is another area to dig into. I like to run M5 to separate outs in DP.

When I check the 'multi-timbral' option when creating a new track in L, I end up with 16 tracks of the same instrument.

During my SMF transfers, I would add a single instance of M5 in L, and just assign each track to "Instrument 1" (M5) and all parts played according to the M5 'performance'.

I'll get it eventually.