MOTUnation.com

Hey sorry I didn't reply back sooner, I am just in the middle of a pretty big sequencing project. I just wanted to say those recordings of you are really good man! I am not really into legit sax, but you do it better than most any I can think of. Really impressive. As for your comments on my career, nah not really, I gave up playing mostly, as I realized if I wanted to pay the rent as a saxophonist I was headed for many many wedding and barmitzvah bands and countless renditions of New York New York on a seedy cruise ship band, probably with reduced budget to 3 horns instead of 15... the impending pain was too great for me, so I got into writing instead, a place I have found very comfortable to find a commercialism to my voice in a way the I can still subliminally insert hipness for my own pleasure and still keep the music listenable for the average joe's ear I still keep my chops together mostly, but generally just for non-featured recording to make my writing more live sounding. Maybe someday I will find the right cats and get a Coltrane type of energy band going again but for now I am content to be a writer. I checked out your mouthpiece excercise, very well written. Something I was doing almost exactly in the late 80s and early 90s in my warmups. Back when I shedded for 8-10 hours a day I would always start with an hour of longtones, pin tones, overtones, and mouthpiece scales. I play on a metal link so usually I start with mouthpiece scales to get the reed seated properly, as those links dont have a perfect plate to seat, at least mine dont ;-D

I guess it all just comes down to taste on the vibrato thing, pitch shifting with the lip to me sounds a little too old fashioned to me, the sounds that I want to be in tune with are more like John Coltrane, Wayne Shorter, Dexter Gordon, Joe Henderson, and they all use very little vibrato, and never a constant one, usually differential that slows down or speeds up. But I will concede you got your •••• together there man, very nicely done!!

I may have missed a couple of simple statements amidst that rather lengthy flurry of posts a couple of months back, so hope this isn't redundant, but well-known wind synthesist Bob Hunt posted a very concise summary on the Sample Modeling forum today about the differences in how EWI USB and Yamaha WX5 handle pitch bend:

"On the Akai EWI, the bite sensor is not intended as a pitch bend controller, it is primarily for vibrato. Biting bends the pitch up slightly but after a release there is a return to zero. The amount of pitch bend is very slight. So the EWI player has to rely on the thumb pitch bend sensor. Other windcontrollers like the WX series as well as the Synthophone have dedicated pitch bend devices in the mouthpiece."

Well, for me, that just sealed the deal: I see no point in even giving the EWI USB a try. I had thought about getting one once I see a discount, as it is quite cheap and would be low risk for flipping, and wanted to keep an open mind about how it might have certain types of expressivity not found in the WX5 (or not done as well) such that I might enjoy both "flavours" depending on context.

But a horn that doesn't pitch bend with the embouchre is something I know I would find unbelievably frustrating. In fact, I would rather play a keyboard and work with expression pedal, mod wheel, ribbon controller, etc., than play a wind instrument that can't bend with the mouth. My fingers are too busy doing other things to be the primary determinant of pitch bend, as that gets my mind back into Keyboard Player Mode.

Ah well, to each their own. Everyone seems to love their EWI, and the USB model puts some pressure on Yamaha to respond, so it'll be interesting to see if they'll bother. After all, Yamaha still has that issue of no longer being able to sell in Europe, and with their price being undercut everywhere else, surely Akai has proven the market for wind controllers is big enough that Yamaha will see fit to come out with a two-tiered WX update, where the rest of us get a slightly more robust Pro model and the entry-level people get a well-built but affordable simplified model. Let us hope!

Though of course I love my WX5, so will be happy whether or not it ever has a follow-on.

I'm glad you cleared that up for us, Mark. I've tried to get a straight answer about that for a long time, but apparently I just never figured out how to ask the right question. I've always preferred to "roll my own" vibrato, rather than use the organ-like vibrato that is programmed into some patches. Even so, some patches do not even have the capacity for you to do your own vibrato. I can live with a few patches that require the "organ" vibrato, as long as my instrument has the capability of continuously sending the pitch that I'm playing via a responsive reed-pressure sensor, and so long as I'm able to play my own vibrato on most of my VI patches. But I know that the original EWI did NOT have that capability. Period. Pitch bend was done only with the right thumb. And when I put together all the answers I've received about the EWI's lip-bend capability, I can see that they were really saying it didn't do that, while also adding the confusing fact that it does send a controller that is used to change the amount of organ vibrato the patch puts out.

So, the bottom line is that if you like your own vibrato best, the WX-5 is the instrument for you.


Shooshie

Hey All,
I'm not a horn or reed instrument player, so I cannot add any significant contribution to this discussion but I'll share this ...
I was told by the manager of the Woodwinds, Brass & Orchestral department at a SamAsh store in NJ, that the Roland SC 880 sound module, was setup and programmed to be used with wind controllers, Yamaha's in particular.

I keep mine around the studio just incase someone with a wind controller shows up.

Blessings
PhireAlly

Yeah, I think Matt Traum used one of those SoundCanvas modules in his own work for some time, and I seem to recall he is now selling his at his Patchman Music site, so maybe he's moved on to the Akai 4000s internal engine now (which he custom programs).

I've never heard the SC series with wind controllers, but I seem to remember reading that at least one of those table-top computer-oriented sound modules has some physical modeling in it, or maybe some technology derived from the hybrid D50 series.

Well, I have so been hitting the jackpot these past few weeks with unbelievable deals on overstocks and other markdowns that I went ahead and ordered the Akai EWI USB just a few minutes ago.

At $60 off the usual price, it's worth the risk, as flipping it would be unlikely to incur much loss.

I've bought other gear I was curious about under similar circumstances, where I lost less than $20 just for the opportunity to try for myself vs. continue to make speculative judgements.

I can't promise that I'll have the time to take a scientific approach towards reporting on its behaviour and level of resolution to different gestures etc. And if I don't have an immediate gut feeling that I can trust by itself, I'll certainly hold onto it until such an opportunity does arise for rigorous testing.

My Akai EWI USB arrived about a week ago or so.

I've been too slammed at work and in the studio to put it together, read the manual, hook it up to the computer (since it's USB only, with no MIDI), and try it out. Due to these limitations, it's more work to try out than the 4000S would be (via MIDI).

I'm hoping to get a chance to try it tonight, but my other neglected recent purchase takes precedence: Hammond-Suzuki Melodion 44 (another stellar deal that I got for $100 off usual street price last month).

The Hammond melodica isn't a MIDI instrument so unfortunately isn't related to this topic, but if anyone is interested in feedbacl on that instrument, shoot me a PM and I'll write something up once I have something worth saying.

Wow. The Hammond-Suzuki 44 Melodion is an amazing instrument, and as I had hoped, will obviate the need for a quality chromatic harmonica (which I don't enjoy playing) when I want to dip into South American jazz and tango stylings.

Now I wish this thing did produce MIDI, as it would make an incredible wind controller!

Anyone wanting to read my mini-review, send me a PM, and I will cut/paste what I wrote elsewhere. It seems too irrelevant to this forum to actually post it as a topic; even in the "off-topic" section.

More or less back on-topic, my so-far brief experience with this instrument gives me hope that the ocarina-style breath controller eventually coming from Virtual Instruments (mysteriously delayed), might be a real winner and a huge improvement on the Yamaha BC3a as well as a useful alternative and augmentation to the Yamaha WX5.

Whoah. The first thing that comes up as I open the manual and start to install the USB driver and software, is a statement about making sure you touch the grounding plates at all times, or the EWI USB will lose some of its functionality!

Then, on the next page, they warn you about not playing the instrument with dry hands, as the keys, rollers, and plates will not be very responsive due to inadequate capacitance. I knew the pricniple was different than with the actual woodwind-like keys on the WX-series, but it didn't occur to me for some reason that it was electrically-driven vs. pressure-driven.

They recommend putting on a bit of non-greasy hand lotion before playing the instrument.

I'm not too comfortable with those statements, as I prefer to choose my own posture while holding and playing a wind instrument, and with any instrument I play, prefer dry hands, but we'll see how it plays out.

It's strange that I have heard no one mention either of these two caveats before. Maybe it just flew right past me.

And now I see that you also have to be careful to only touch and hold the plastic parts of the instrument while plugging in its USB cable, or you could mess up the auto-calibration that occurs on each startup!

I'm not used to having to think about so many things when I plug in my WX5.

I'll be calling my Sweetwater rep first thing Monday to send this back towards credit on my next purchase (unless there are enough restocking fees/etc. to make it more economical to just sell it on eBay).

I know it may not seem fair to judge something so quickly, but I can think of no reason on earth why my PERSONAL experience with this controller would be modulated over time, given the nature of my dislikes.

First off, it doesn't feel like an instrument to me; it feels like a controller. Every aspect of the tactile interaction is a disconnect for me; whereas with the Yamaha WX5, I really feel like I'm playing an acoustic instrument, and just happen to be triggering sounds with it. It may be plastic, but it feels like a professional horn to me.

Even though I also have experience (at a fairly proficient level) on baroque recorder, the touch-only keys do not agree with me at all. Partly it's the placement, and also the lack of feeling air or pressure in any way. Even on recorder, you at least feel the difference in air when you half-finger a hole, for instance, even if there are no keys to press (except extender keys). Also, there are fewer fingerings available than with the WX series.

I am sure many people will not be bothered by the feel and tactile feedback (or lack thereof), but to me it is somewhat akin to the difference between synth action (which I despise) and either semi-weighted (or organ) action and fully weighted action on keyboards, both of which I like a great deal.

Next up, the rollers. These are supposed to be easier for octave switching than Yamaha's approach, which is indeed slightly awkward, but one does eventually develop spatial and tactile finger memories of the precise pressure points needed for octave-switching on the WX-series, and while the octave breaks are trickier than on the Akai EWI, they are no more difficult than on a real acoustic horn, and in fact this helps to reinforce the notion that one is playing a "real instrument".

So are the Akai rollers easier? Both yes and no, and this will of course vary with the individual. What I found was that they, too, are quite position sensitive as to when, how, and where one shifts pressure between the rollers, to engage properly and at the precise time needed.

Now this may be one of the differences vs. the 4000S, which has more rollers and from what I remember reading, behaves slightly differently in how they engage. So by itself it is not a make-or-break criterium. But even though the WX octave keys are slightly awkward at first, I find they give more tactile feedback than the EWI.

What really shocked me though, was how unresponsive the EWI USB was to embouchre and tonguing, even after tweaking parameters. This too may be due to my older computer only having USB 1.1, whereas I hook up the WX5 to my Fireface 800 running at FW400. There was just no comparison in the responsiveness of the two controllers to rapid expressive nuances.

This would probably modulate in time with experience, since it has supposedly been proven that the EWI USB gives far greater resolution of MIDI data than the WX-5. Nevertheless, it was a matter of comfort and tactile feedback for me -- and I have played oboe as well. The EWI USB doesn't feel like any acoustic instrument I have ever played; the WX-5 does. That familiarity, in spite of the differences (and no two mouthpieces or horns are the same, but a pro player quickly adjusts), contributes to my feeling "connected" to the WX-5 and "disconnected" from the EWI USB.

In none of these criticisms am I focused on the trouble I had with the fingering itself, which I owe up to unfamiliarity and inexperience -- after all, I initially had similar problems with the WX-5. I am strictly relating a more emotional response to the EWI USB based on how it "feels" to play it vs. the WX-5, as opposed to the technical details of idealising the setup of each controller and becoming more proficient at getting the best results out of each.

This is all written from the perspective of someone who played clarinet as a serious first instrument for a good chunk of his life, along with doubling on saxes and occasionally flute and oboe.

Many people pick up wind controllers with little to no experience with acoustic horns. Just as many pick up electronic keyboard instruments (workstations and synths etc.) with little to no experience playing acoustic piano. There is nothing wrong with people like that -- especially as many do not have access. But it does change expectations and what feels natural.

This is not meant to disrespect anyone with deep experience on natural horns, who happens to love the EWI and prefers it to the WX. My relation of my personal experience, however brief, may or may not be of use, or interest, to anyone else.

Thanks VERY MUCH for the testimonial. That confirms many things that concerned me about the EWI.


Shooshie

On a separate note, I found the sound library that accompanies this controller to be dreadful, and below the quality of a low-end arranger keyboard, as well as not very responsive. So most of my trial runs were done using the Sample Modeling instruments. Ironically, they were set up better to deal with the quirks of the EWI as well as its few unique properties such as the MIDI CC's sent out when you "bite" the mouthpiece.

I think the most disturbing tactile thing for me with the EWI is how sensitive it is to losing its sense of engagement with the player, due to it being based on capacitance buildup from the electrical current in the human body. This means you really must maintain a rigid position with your fingers lest you accidentally cause a note to sustain permanently (due to losing the functionality of the controller when the fingers drift too far from the ideal contact points). But the 4000S may be less sensitive in this regard.

Although breath controllers and wind controllers are different beasts, we've been discussing both in this thread, so here's an update on the status of the new Breath Controller mentioned earlier:

http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... c&start=35

Note the material has changed from wood to resin, and other changes are being made before final production.

I look forward to getting one of these for use on strings, and also any time that I need to control polyphonic instruments, where a wind controller wouldn't work due to being monophonic.

Thankfully, Kurzweil still supports BC input, so MIDI Solutions outboard gear isn't required as it now is for newer Yamaha keyboards/modules.

Nick Batzdorf announced on Sunday that he expects to finally go into full production on his amazing new Breath Controllers this week!

He adds that he is too embarrassed to go into details about how the nature of that last 1% took 99% of the time, or something to that effect, but as a developer in the manufacturing world, I can relate.

Haha, here we are almost one year later and Nick says he's "close" but is afraid to promise anything this time. He does have several in production this time around though, and feels he has finished tweaking. Hopefully the new breath controller is finally imminent!