MOTUnation.com

I happen to be on Toronto Island composing at an artist retreat center. I brought my macbook pro, dp5 and a few other UB backup apps in case the crashing got too bad. The suprising thing is that it hasn't and I'm using Mlan with an o1x digital mixer and that's working fine too. The bummer is that UB was released, I uploaded it and its asking for my installer CD which, of course is sitting at my studio in NY. I'm wondering if 5.1 will work worse than what I've been experiencing under Rosetta, basically solid record and playback with occasional crashes if I do a bunch of unusual things or play around alot with plugs.

peteruno wrote:I'm wondering if 5.1 will work worse than what I've been experiencing under Rosetta, basically solid record and playback with occasional crashes if I do a bunch of unusual things or play around alot with plugs.

It just doesn't make sense that MOTU would release a universal binary that performed worse on intel than 5.01 under Rosetta/emulation. Others are reporting much happiness with the universal binary on their intel machines.

I just cant help but think that are other issues with the original poster's machine.

emulatorloo wrote:

dougieb wrote:I don't think its running under emulation for real (I checked the version # just to be sure though).

Dougieb I wonder about your configuration. I think you need to call MOTU and tell them your results. Because it just doesnt sound right.

While I onlyl have a G4 I am seeing improvements in performance w 5.1. It defies logic (no pun intended) that MOTU would release a universal binary that would perform so poorly.

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Okay, I have a G5 Dual 2.0 with like 4 gigs of ram that I use most of the time, this post has referred to my MacBook Pro 2.16 x 2g ram, the fast harddrive (can't remember the speed, but not the 5k one)...

The intel machine really does scream with Reason, Live, Logic - anything really - except DP. I'm sure this version is great on G5, but just boggs down the intel in a way that the other apps just don't.

It's not 3rd party plugs because these same 3rd party plugs don't bog down the other hosts...

I have to laugh on the post about how the DP demo supposedly taxes things - on the G5 2.0, its barely noticable.

So bottom line, anyone using the Macbook Pro (Intel) and getting any appreciable performance? From the performance I was getting with Logic, Live and Reason, I for some reason thought the thing would scream and kick ass, but its like going back in time.

emulatorloo wrote:

peteruno wrote:I'm wondering if 5.1 will work worse than what I've been experiencing under Rosetta, basically solid record and playback with occasional crashes if I do a bunch of unusual things or play around alot with plugs.

It just doesn't make sense that MOTU would release a universal binary that performed worse on intel than 5.01 under Rosetta/emulation. Others are reporting much happiness with the universal binary on their intel machines.

I just cant help but think that are other issues with the original poster's machine.

No problems here except that every App on the Intel appears to blaze except DP.

I'm thinking at this point that DP's speed problems are rooted deeper. Maybe its the price we pay for this level of functionality - but DAMN - Logic is fast as hell... on everything - and I mean like FAST. And it sucks rocks because the Logic UI, interface, controls, everything is the PITS. But hey, you have to give it props for working REALLY well - no crashing - solid - responsive - lousy interface (lol)... If logic had a "DP" skin, it would be the complete package.

dougieb wrote:

emulatorloo wrote:

peteruno wrote:I'm wondering if 5.1 will work worse than what I've been experiencing under Rosetta, basically solid record and playback with occasional crashes if I do a bunch of unusual things or play around alot with plugs.

It just doesn't make sense that MOTU would release a universal binary that performed worse on intel than 5.01 under Rosetta/emulation. Others are reporting much happiness with the universal binary on their intel machines.

I just cant help but think that are other issues with the original poster's machine.

No problems here except that every App on the Intel appears to blaze except DP.

I'm thinking at this point that DP's speed problems are rooted deeper. Maybe its the price we pay for this level of functionality - but DAMN - Logic is fast as hell... on everything - and I mean like FAST. And it sucks rocks because the Logic UI, interface, controls, everything is the PITS. But hey, you have to give it props for working REALLY well - no crashing - solid - responsive - lousy interface (lol)... If logic had a "DP" skin, it would be the complete package.

Hello
Here is what I got with 5.1 on Intel Mac .

G5 2 x 1.8 Ghz PPC 900 Mhz bussing 15 modulo's
Mac Mini 2 x 1.6 Ghz Intel 667 Mhz bussing 12 modulo's

So I do not think that DP 5.1 is slow at all ......on Intel ....

I wish you could try the benchmark on your laptop .....to find out why you got such results .....
Aramis

tommymandel wrote: Maybe the retroz311 guy meant DP 5.0 was not UB, not 5.1?

retroz311 wrote:All will be fine when UB comes out.

So when's it coming out?

dougieb wrote: It's not 3rd party plugs because these same 3rd party plugs don't bog down the other hosts...

Dougie, that does not necessarily follow. It may very well be that an interaction with a 3rd party plugin is causing the problem with a specific app (DP 5.1 in this case), even if said plugin plays nice with other apps. This sort of thing happens ALL the time.

Sometimes, for example, a plugin will conform only 95% to the platform spec, or to an older version of spec. Apps that are either not strict about the spec or do not use 100% of it will be tolerant of this, while stricter ones will not. Used to run into this constantly with VST plugins in Cubendo-land, where 3rd party plugs that worked great in other apps crashed or seriously bogged down Steinberg products that were strict about the VST protocol.

If you're serious about troubleshooting this issue, you really owe it to yourself to try disabling all 3rd party plugs temporarily and see if it fixes the problem. You absolutely cannot rule out plugins as the culprit until you try this. It doesn't take very long, and you might find your problem!

It could be something else entirely, of course, but plugins are always my A-number 1 suspects when things go wrong in digital recording land. And it's easy to confirm or deny the issue.

-m

dougieb wrote:It's not 3rd party plugs because these same 3rd party plugs don't bog down the other hosts...

Well maybe it isn't. But it kinda reminds me of my friend whose OS 9 computer kept crashing until I tracked it down to a bad scsi cable

"It can't be the scsi cable because the drive still shows up"

or the other friend who had kernel panics in OS X

"It can't be the RAM because I bought it from a reputable vendor."

but his stick of RAM had gone bad, and the reputable vendor replaced it.

I don't know what's up with your macbook pro. But if you are seeing worse performance w DP on your macbook than you are seeing on your desktop G5, then IMHO something is messed up on your laptop re configuration or something.

http://www.motu.com/techsupport/technot ... s-in-DP5.1

Using Plug-ins in Digital Performer 5.1

Digital Performer 5.1 is a universal binary application, meaning that it runs natively on either PowerPC or Intel Macs. Per OSX's design all applications & any plug-ins they use must run entirely natively or non-natively. This means that with DP 5.1 you must use plug-ins that are also universal binaries or that are specific to the type of Mac you have (i.e., PowerPC plug-ins on a PowerPC Mac).

--If you're running DP 5.1 on a PowerPC Mac, you can use universal binary and PowerPC-only plug-ins. You cannot use Intel-only plug-ins.

--If you're running DP 5.1 on an Intel Mac, you can use universal binary and Intel-only plug-ins. You cannot use PowerPC-only plug-ins.

All of the plug-ins included with Digital Performer 5.1 are universal binaries.

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At the very least you should inform MOTU of this

Voice: 617 576 3066 (9am-6pm, Eastern, M-F)

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monkey man wrote:

smidijack wrote:Logic SOUNDS much better. And this is still with Express!

So, Logic Express sounds better than DP?
Pull the other one, mate!

smidijack wrote: My friends were right all these years. I ordered my Logic Pro upgrade. Bye-Bye.

It's been said before to defectors, but don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Happy dreamin'.

I'm not defecting (I'm going to use BOTH of them), but I will say he's right about one thing--Logic blows DP away in the CPU efficiency department. I'm sorry, but that's the truth. I haven't really made any judgments on the sound quality, but DP blows Logic away in the usability department.

So I plan to do my VIs in LE and transfer them to DP for everything else.

MOTU should take another look at their audio engine.

DP UB on Intel MAC reported here 66% faster in CPU usage when loading DEMO song....perhaps faster, before it was about 85% with some drops...

Now hoovers around 20%.

GO UB.

Better CRASH utilities too. Instead of freezing up on intel mac, now gives more options to stop and still loads DP5.

[/quote]I'm not defecting (I'm going to use BOTH of them), but I will say he's right about one thing--Logic blows DP away in the CPU efficiency department. I'm sorry, but that's the truth. I haven't really made any judgments on the sound quality, but DP blows Logic away in the usability department.

So I plan to do my VIs in LE and transfer them to DP for everything else.

MOTU should take another look at their audio engine.[/quote]

You know I thought about that, as I agree with the religious here that DP's interface is much easier to deal with. Thats the main reason I've been using it forever. In fact, before DP, I produced some of my best stuff slaving black-faced ADATs to Performer. However, now that I've gotten my Logic Pro upgrade, (and I'm finally used to the interface) I actually feel a bit energized. I think not knowing where "everything" is is helping my creative juices. I'm now back to more of simply using the box as a recording device. And as you so correctly point out, Logic 7.2 blows the doors off of DP 5 as far as basic performance, stability, and using UB AU plugs. As I mentioned in my original post, even MSI performs way better in Logic. (Now, isn't that odd.)

I didn't start all of this to rag on MOTU. I've been doing this all of my life, built my own first computer, built a CV/Gate interface for an Apple // before MIDI, and so on. I merely posted to present what is now a viable and powerful option that (at least currently) works much better. After all, the thing we do most (at least me), is press record, hopefuly capture a great performance, and if not press record again. For this, Logic is currently far superior to DP. On an Intel-based system. I have stopped attending the church of MOTU. Thats all.

btw, I know everyone here like to list all of their gear. I will just say that I've owned (and torn apart) just about every Mac ever made, (and at one point every synth that ARP ever produced, Roland, etc) but in my focused eforts to REALLY strip down (downsizing my life) I am now using only an iMac Duo with an extra Apple LCD, a couple of very nice preamps, mics, etc. And of course, the very limiting LP! I had no idea I would get so torn apart by my post, although going back and re-reading it, I suppose you might think that I was really a troll since I don't have a zillion posts here. Happy that someone here has an open mind.

monkey man wrote:

Resonant Alien wrote:But Logic "SOUNDS" better than DP? I have heard people say this before that one app "sounds" better than another, etc. I just don't buy it. What your audio sounds like is determined 98% by your A/D converters, your studio wiring, and the quality of your plugs. The other 2% could be attributed to the implementation of pan laws within the DAW. But in terms of processing 1s and 0s, which is all any DAW does, I don't buy that one app can make 1s and 0s sound better than another app, assuming you are running through the same A/D interface when you make the comparisons.......

Bravo.

Can you imagine it?
"Here, I've got a Chinese 1 and a couple of French 0's. I bet they sound better than any Indian 1 or Irish 0's you've got. Naaa-naa-naa-naaaaa-naa."

I hope for his sake the poor chap can sleep it off, 'cause it sounds serious!
Of course, it'd sound more serious on his system, 'cause those 1's and 0's, well, they just "shine" in his Logic engine.

Let's hear them!