LOGIC STUDIO AND LOGIC 8 JUST OUT!!

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:04 pm

bayswater wrote:
James Steele wrote:Is it obvious? How so? I didn't know about this. They use iLok.
Without going into details that are unhelpful, Waves trials can go on forever.
James Steele wrote:Oh... umm... okay so you have a better idea? What should I do? Just go fold the email list and quit because you seem to think that it's an impossible battle?
Obviously not -- we have to do what we can; that's why I joined the list. But we're really just defending a position until reinforcements arrive. There's no point asking me what the long term solution is; but I suspect it would have something to do with tighter hardware and software integration -- I've never heard of anyone running a UAD plug without a UAD Card. We just have to expect those with the brains and capital to come up with a better way.

Thanks for clarifying. I agree that it's tough fight but one that shouldn't be given up. It's too bad there's a Waves issue. I have to wonder if that's an iLok problem or Wave's implementation of it. Hopefully it will be solved.

grimepoch · Post by **grimepoch** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:10 pm

Okay, so as a thumbs up to DP, I think that I have found something I SERIOUSLY dislike in Logic, setting up external links.

I have a Virus B and I have searching high and low for an enviroment template for it and have found NOTHING. All but one of my synths has been in DP and I run 11 different hardware synths. Talk about a pain in the neck! I mean, if Soundiver was a real product still then it wouldn't be so bad grabbing the data out, but now, I am stuck either recreating the wheel or continuing to search.

-5 Logic
+5 DP

emulatorloo · Post by **emulatorloo** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:30 pm

grimepoch wrote:Okay, so as a thumbs up to DP, I think that I have found something I SERIOUSLY dislike in Logic, setting up external links.

I have a Virus B and I have searching high and low for an enviroment template for it and have found NOTHING.

Well, I for one am glad to see that Logic appears to actually be able to see all the external hardware set up in Audio MIDI setup rather than making you "create" everything in the "environment" -- p95, Logic User Manual:

Logic Pro recognizes all MIDI devices set up in the Audio MIDI Setup (AMS) utility, the
integrated audio and MIDI configuration tool of Mac OS X. You can find the AMS utility
in the Applications/Utilities folder. For more information on use, see the AMS Help.

grimepoch · Post by **grimepoch** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:34 pm

I think you still have to create them in the environment even if they are in the AMS. AMS just allows those ports to show up in Logic.

emulatorloo · Post by **emulatorloo** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:42 pm

grimepoch wrote:I think you still have to create them in the environment even if they are in the AMS.

YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(reviewing chapter 39, "Working in the Environment" and starting to remember why I bought a Performer competitive upgrade)

--

grimepoch · Post by **grimepoch** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:04 pm

Well I am a coder, so right now I am looking at the files and seeing if I can built a translator from the XML to something the environment can use. I shouldn't have to do this.

tremolounge · Post by **tremolounge** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:13 pm

grimepoch wrote:Well I am a coder, so right now I am looking at the files and seeing if I can built a translator from the XML to something the environment can use. I shouldn't have to do this.

It's been a while since I set up my hw synths in Logic's Environment, so I'm a little rusty, but... if you just get the patch names in a list so you can copy them to the clipboard, you can then paste all 128 names (per bank) at once into the Multi Instrument window (use the Options button / "Paste all Names"). You have to do one bank at a time, and you're right; it's a big PITA.

I had to do all kinds of contortions with Cherry Picker, Excel, Word, etc. just to get a clean list of patch names to copy. Sometimes it's easier if you have a PDF manual for the synth; you can copy patch names from that.

Again, sorry I'm rusty on this, but the bare bones is in the Logic 8 manual, p. 885. Hasn't changed from LP7 (Orren Merton's book "Logic Pro 7 Power" has a little bit better explanation than the manual).

grimepoch · Post by **grimepoch** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:22 pm

Yep, I just downloaded the L8 manual as well. I am using Perl to extrapolate the information from the XML files. I am good with perl and regular expressions so I can get the names out easy enough.

That said, WOW, I can't believe no one has ever mentioned this before as something that DP REALLY excels at and logic does not. The fact that the XML is so customizable and you can name banks as they appear in the device.

Some of my units don't even use 128 in a bank so now I am going to have all these empty spaces that feel like a total hack.

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:21 am

kelldammit wrote:if you're using omf, dp5.11 works fine.

Thank you, Kell.
Most of my projects are still in 2.7, 3.1, 4.11 and 4.61 formats.
Not sure what the implications of this are.

kelldammit wrote:... otherwise, you're probably best off exporting a standard MIDI file from dp (save as, and select MIDI file in the pulldown), and bounce out any audio, and go from there. even if you have no MIDI, the smf will contain the tempo, markers, etc. l-l-l will put them into the project for you...just open the smf directly, and start importing your audio.

I typically run dozens of MIDI tracks, and also store all sysex dumps within projects.
The only sensible way I can think of to deal with this would be to pre-group these tracks and export multiple MIDI files, subsequently importing them to L... L... L..., er, the other app, in a cumulative fashion.
Could get messy if indeed it works. In theory, that is.

kelldammit wrote:... you could also probably just drag the sdII's right out of the dp project folder into "the other daw" using finder...as long as the timestamps are good, you should be okay. you could probably also just import them.

Sounds good, Kell.
Pity 99% of my content is MIDI data due to my failure in recording audio these last 12 years.
Serves me right, really.

kelldammit wrote:... i hear you insofar as instruments/plugs. as you progress, you just start requiring things that suit you better, and anything less feels cheesy and is unacceptable, or at very least uninspiring...i had to get ivory due to issues with sustaining notes in pretty much everything else i've tried...
kell

You'll appreciate that I've had to resort to aiming for "uninspiring".
I've played the odd truly inspiring instrument over the years, and have always wondered what effect owning such a beast would have.
As my aforementioned decision implies, I'm prepared to tough it out in Cheeseville if it means some sort of revenue increase is possible, thus enabling future inspiration Nirvana.

Thank you very much for that, Kell; the questions were hypothetical, but in my current state of confusion, the answers are all gold.

monkey man · Post by **monkey man** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:54 am

Dang.

I just read that the app in question includes a denoiser and other restoration tools.
Denoising is the main reason I bought PowerCore.
I've been keen to ditch this unholy spanner-in-the-works inspiration neutraliser for many reasons, but the prospect of having to buy a denoiser in addition to Altiverb, VW and Ozone etc. has seen me hoping that DP will include one soon.

In addition to this, I couldn't help but notice the guitar amp plug-in.
An instrumental and overwhelmingly justifiable (due to the current popularity of the guitar in pop music) inclusion to be sure.
Is DP the only app that can't simulate cabinets and various basic preamp/amp flavours?
Preamp 1. One preamp. One basic, spitty character. No cabinet.

To sum up: If DP delivers a versatile (format wise) convolution reverb, a warming compressor/preamp/channelstrip, a guitar amp and cab sim, a greatly expanded set of instruments and a MWEQ-quality set of mastering tools, as well as a reasonable hike in standard plug quality, I'll be as happy as Larry and be able to eat well for the first time during adulthood (or something that approximates it anyway!).
Hey, I'd even be prepared to let MOTU off the hook should it decide to retain its current pricing whilst adding features as opposed to Apple's strategy of adding whilst reducing.
Damn... I'd even consider paying more for an all-inclusive, VI and feature-laden version of DP that bundled MachFive, MSI and Ethno as part of the deal.
DP Pro does sound, well, pro.

Praying for a breakthrough as always, but this time it's on MOTU's behalf.
C'mon, Gods of MOTU, show those pesky apple farmers who's da man.
Please... I beg of you; I know you've been tweaking and innovating DP since 2006's DP5 release (18 months now?), holding onto your trump cards (yes, I believe you're hiding more than one), and skirting around the periphery with minute, erm.. miniscule... I mean... minor stability updates whilst attempting to reign in (pun, and a bad one at that) the juggernaut that is our future DP.
At this point, I'd expect that at the very least you'll bring the next realease date forward in an effort to soften the L... L... L... other app's blow.

This whole thing's messin' with my starved head.
Need MOTU fodder...

kelldammit · Post by **kelldammit** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:58 am

monkey man wrote:I typically run dozens of MIDI tracks, and also store all sysex dumps within projects.
The only sensible way I can think of to deal with this would be to pre-group these tracks and export multiple MIDI files, subsequently importing them to L... L... L..., er, the other app, in a cumulative fashion.
Could get messy if indeed it works. In theory, that is.

fair enough. though you can use freebie utilities like sysex librarian to deal with those. i know that at various stages, most daws seem to run into sysex issues. sysex editor lets you dump to and from the synth, so you could just save the sysex files in your project folder, and leave them out of the project itself, unless you're dealing with using them on the fly during a project. i generally go with smf type 0's, because they're pretty much universal, and all the tracks are lined up properly...so no issues importing them individually (especially if they're not quantized) either way, as long as it gets the job done...

Sounds good, Kell.
Pity 99% of my content is MIDI data due to my failure in recording audio these last 12 years.
Serves me right, really.

i pretty much keep everything MIDI until the last possible moment...it makes it hard cause it can leaves a lot of options open, making it difficult to commit things one way or the other.

You'll appreciate that I've had to resort to aiming for "uninspiring".
I've played the odd truly inspiring instrument over the years, and have always wondered what effect owning such a beast would have.
As my aforementioned decision implies, I'm prepared to tough it out in Cheeseville if it means some sort of revenue increase is possible, thus enabling future inspiration Nirvana.

been there, and to some degree, i still am. lol. it's a bugger being poor and having a brutally expensive hobby/habit (hobbit?).

Thank you very much for that, Kell; the questions were hypothetical, but in my current state of confusion, the answers are all gold.

you're welcome nicky. anytime at all. feel free to ask any further hypothetical questions should they arise. you'll always find help here, even if it is with l...l...l...well, you know.

kell

kelldammit · Post by **kelldammit** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:59 am

oops. it was easy, so i took it twice.

kassonica · Post by **kassonica** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:14 am

monkey man wrote:
To sum up: If DP delivers a versatile (format wise) convolution reverb, a warming compressor/preamp/channelstrip, a guitar amp and cab sim, a greatly expanded set of instruments and a MWEQ-quality set of mastering tools, as well as a reasonable hike in standard plug quality, I'll be as happy as Larry and be able to eat well for the first time during adulthood (or something that approximates it anyway!).
Hey, I'd even be prepared to let MOTU off the hook should it decide to retain its current pricing whilst adding features as opposed to Apple's strategy of adding whilst reducing.
Damn... I'd even consider paying more for an all-inclusive, VI and feature-laden version of DP that bundled MachFive, MSI and Ethno as part of the deal.
DP Pro does sound, well, pro.

Praying for a breakthrough as always, but this time it's on MOTU's behalf.
C'mon, Gods of MOTU, show those pesky apple farmers who's da man.
Please... I beg of you; I know you've been tweaking and innovating DP since 2006's DP5 release (18 months now?), holding onto your trump cards (yes, I believe you're hiding more than one), and skirting around the periphery with minute, erm.. miniscule... I mean... minor stability updates whilst attempting to reign in (pun, and a bad one at that) the juggernaut that is our future DP.
At this point, I'd expect that at the very least you'll bring the next realease date forward in an effort to soften the L... L... L... other app's blow.

This whole thing's messin' with my starved head.
Need MOTU fodder...

Well said fellow melbourian + 2 from mark

AlMacMeister · Post by **AlMacMeister** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:28 am

monkey man wrote:Sounds good, Kell.

Egads! Just had a Kath and Kim flashback reading that...Purveyor of fine meats!

(sorry for the off topic...)

jlaudon · Post by **jlaudon** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:42 am

DOn't know if many people watching this thread checked out the other thread about DP and Logic running great in sync, both on one mac and also on two different macs (using soundflower).

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23276

The 2 apps can really compliment each other this way (and a cheap way to get some of those Logic things like conv verb, and some of the nice synths).

BTW, has anyone tried mainstage - probably giving KORE a run for it's money as well?