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I just opened a 12-15 year old project of a client's created on DP4.x in his (not my) studio with a G5 Power Mac. Working perfectly under DP11.22 with Apple Silicon.

That's pretty impressive to me.

I wish DP never crashed. For me, however, crashes are rare, and Auto Save (every 5 Min) makes any that do occur a nominal inconvenience with the very fast access times Apple Silicon's speedy storage provides.

My brother in law running Logic on Apple Silicon seems to have more trouble than I do.

I get way more crashes when programming MainStage on my M1 laptop than I do with DP. Neither program ever crashes when I am performing (MainStage) or playing back or recording (DP).

HCMarkus wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 9:12 am...and Auto Save (every 5 Min) makes any that do occur a nominal inconvenience with the very fast access times Apple Silicon's speedy storage provides.

Yeah... I definitely have autosave enabled. I wish, however, it didn't prompt you to overwrite your original project file when you open an autosave document. Wish it could just open it and perhaps add a suffix to it without requiring steps on the part of the user not to nuke the original document.

James Steele wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 10:32 am

HCMarkus wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 9:12 am...and Auto Save (every 5 Min) makes any that do occur a nominal inconvenience with the very fast access times Apple Silicon's speedy storage provides.

Yeah... I definitely have autosave enabled. I wish, however, it didn't prompt you to overwrite your original project file when you open an autosave document. Wish it could just open it and perhaps add a suffix to it without requiring steps on the part of the user not to nuke the original document.

I start projects at "Project Name A" and move on towards Z as the project matures, so I always move to the next incremental version when opening an Auto Saved file. Takes but a sec and isn't needed often, so no big deal IMO.

Phil O wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 5:43 am ..I plan to try working on a project that has crashed a few times by creating a new file using the Load command. I'm hoping it will make a difference. I'll report back at some point on how that woks out.

So, I promised to report back.

I've been working on that pesky project for about 3 hours now and did indeed start it fresh with the Load command. Have not had a crash yet - and I made a lot of moves that seemed to cause crashes before. I can't be sure, but I suspect there was something in that old file that DP 11.22 doesn't like. It's working fine now. I would suggest to the OP to give it a try, Can't hurt.

Your friendly neighborhood Phil

Phil O wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:46 amI've been working on that pesky project for about 3 hours now and did indeed start it fresh with the Load command. Have not had a crash yet - and I made a lot of moves that seemed to cause crashes before. I can't be sure, but I suspect there was something in that old file that DP 11.22 doesn't like. It's working fine now. I would suggest to the OP to give it a try, Can't hurt.

Your friendly neighborhood Phil

Good advice Phil... glad it is working for you!

Phil O wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 7:46 am I've been working on that pesky project for about 3 hours now and did indeed start it fresh with the Load command. Have not had a crash yet - and I made a lot of moves that seemed to cause crashes before. I can't be sure, but I suspect there was something in that old file that DP 11.22 doesn't like. It's working fine now. I would suggest to the OP to give it a try, Can't hurt.

Thank you, Phil, but I did mention using Load in my OP, which may have been TLDR for some who missed it.

Load has been reliable for getting crashy projects to open. I've been using Load when simply disabling MAS before opening, and enabling after open caused crashes.

Since I've been remixing a slew of old songs, I've been working on multiple projects per day, whereas it's more "normal" for me to work on one project over the course of several days. Most of my crashes have occurred when opening an old (2-10 years+) project, or opening a project on Computer #2 that I'd been working with on Computer #1.

Just looking for additional data points, but Jim, and others... can you check to see how many third party plugins you've instantiated on a mono audio track in mono-to-stereo mode? I'm having issues today with McDSP EC-300 Echoes Collection, IK Multimedia Mix Box, and PSP InfiniStrip. What I found was that mono-to-stereo instances of these plugins: a) do not completely bypass; and b) if they are saved as mono-to-stereo instances in the project, subsequent loading of the project causes DP to crash every time!

If however, I change those instances to mono-to-mono, bypass works correctly. No crashing.

Bottom line: please check any mono-to-stereo instances of third party plugs.

Also as an additional data point: when using same plugins (AU) as mono-to-stereo in Logic Pro, bypass behaves correctly and there is no instability and projects open fine.

Oh wow, that might be why several of my reverbs were crashing earlier! I've recently taken to using mono-to-stereo reverbs with HPF's, LPF's and low shelfs, as a way to give a natural stereo spread of controlled frequency ranges vs. using image widener plugins. But once I pushed my mon o-to-stereo plug-ins from insert slots to aux channels, no more crashes.

mhschmieder wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 6:23 pm Oh wow, that might be why several of my reverbs were crashing earlier! I've recently taken to using mono-to-stereo reverbs with HPF's, LPF's and low shelfs, as a way to give a natural stereo spread of controlled frequency ranges vs. using image widener plugins. But once I pushed my mono-to-stereo plug-ins from insert slots to aux channels, no more crashes.

Thanks for the confirmation. I'm encouraged that we may be onto something here. I've reported it to MOTU. I've been able to introduce serious instability by having a mono-to-stereo effect plugin on a mono audio track insert. And again, saving the project with a mono-to-stereo instance on an insert and then trying to re-open that project will crash me over and over.

Also, it seems something MAY happen that merely the presence of that mono-to-stereo plugin causes instability even if that track is disabled. That surprised me. I launched DP and switched over to MIDI-only mode before loading the problem project. Then loaded the problem project and disabled the track with the mono-to-stereo plugin inserted on it. Changing back to MOTU Audio System, still caused DP to crash during that period when all the plugins and VIs are coming on line (just before waveforms turn solid in the TO and SE). So sometimes deleting the track when in MIDI only mode was the only way to clear out whatever was causing an issue, and then the project will load again.

Hopefully MOTU will be on this and get a fix out soon. This *might* have been what was going on with some of the issues I and others were having with UADx plugins. Although I think some of them were straightforward mono instances, but I can't be sure now.

I have nothing to add to the mono-to-stereo discussion, but this evening, I moved a project from Computer #2 to Computer #1, in which I had previously disabled all the Failed Compatibility plug-ins, and DP crashed on opening the project the first time. It opened without a crash the second time, which is not that unusual.

Just adding that to the discussion about Plug-ins. Carry on.

Long shot, but in that project that crashed did you have any mono-to-stereo instances on an insert of a mono audio track?

Jim wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:22 am Thank you, Phil, but I did mention using Load in my OP, which may have been TLDR for some who missed it.

Ooops. Sorry I missed that.

Phil O wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2023 5:45 am

Jim wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:22 am Thank you, Phil, but I did mention using Load in my OP, which may have been TLDR for some who missed it.

Ooops. Sorry I missed that.

I think I missed that, too, but I was loaded at the time...

James Steele wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 5:56 pm
Bottom line: please check any mono-to-stereo instances of third party plugs.

Doesn’t seem to be a problem here. Maybe specific to Ventura/Silicon?

Coming back to this thread to report: I'm remixing many older projects, as one does when one either gets some new plug-ins or learns techniques to improve mixes.

Almost without fail, when I open an old project, DP crashes. When I open it the second time, no crashes. This has been consistent for the past 10 or 15 older projects I've opened on my MacPro.

The only exemptions are projects that have no audio tracks - MIDI only. That may be a clue.

And, I'm still getting crashes while remixing. Most often caused by clicking on the insert of a VI or by invoking a saved preset in the Mixing Board.

Some of the projects are six months since the last save; some are six or eight years.