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qo,

I think the comparison is flawed...About 9 seconds of verb against only 2 (requiring, very roughly 4x more processing power) ?. Plus its hall against church...different sound, too.

The only problem is that either IR-1 with DP works out at double, yes double the price of Logic and DP and altiverb works out at nearly 3x the price.

ytomk,

I see your point. If I go back in time I recall that when SD first came out it had a price tag between that of Altiverb and IR. Some time later it was thrown in the Logic package for free. Left aside the fact that this put off users that actually paid for SD, my impression is that this move was done for two reasons: to protect SD from better sounding competitors and to make the Logic package more attractive by offering something more.

However, up to now SD has virtually stayed the same, no updates, even now on LP7, whereas Altiverb and IR have been updated. Big difference. Yes, they come at a price.

LP has more edge on plug-in count, but it doesn't mean the plugs are better sounding. If you are serious about music you'll want the better sounding apps, and eventually buy third party plug-ins anyway.

I wouldn't rule out DP only because of plug-in count. DP is a feature-rich, deep and user friendly program. I took a look at your needs, and feel it has you covered. The only thing I don't know is your FW interface. Check for compatibility.

Are there comparisons between Logic plugin counts and DP plugin counts that are similar to qo's test (but using the same plugs with both apps to test which one is more CPU friendly?)

I'd love to see how many instances of an EW Gold horn patch might play before CPU failure between DP and Logic on the same machine!

It seems that many people say Logic is more efficient, but I can't find more quantitative information.

I'm soooo wanting more power. I do a lot of orchestral mock-ups and it seems I can only play 'most' of the orchestra when running with a 1024 buffer on my 2x2. I don't mind a little bit of freezing tracks, but by the time I'm finishing a cue, I end up spending a lot of time loading samples (mute frees resources setting ON) when I un-mute an instrument to make changes. And then more time waiting when I freeze the track after I'm happy with the changes. I've tried just muting the MIDI tracks, but even then, if I don't free system resources on the instrument track, I don't have enough CPU to even run one VI.

I've heard Logic can do a 'background freeze' but I haven't seen it in action.

Rich

Richard,

I meant plug-ins on offer. For count I usually use "instances".
I don't have EW, but can run some tests...

I just picked an instance of a software instrument like Cameleon 5000
and ran as many instances that I could under DP and Logic Express.
I got one more in Logic, BUT got a significantly lower track count
(in Logic) at the same sample rate.

Hi ytomk, I made the crossgrade switch from Logic 6 to DP (in the UK too) and i've not looked back. For me it's not a case of DP being miles better than Logic (though it is for handling audio IMHO ), it's just the little subtle things that make it easier to get on with what I want to do which is create music. Logic seemed at times, well bloody illogical actually! Though it's all personal opinion....

Archer wrote:Richard,

I meant plug-ins on offer. For count I usually use "instances".
I don't have EW, but can run some tests...

Super! I'd love to hear about the results.

I have to admit, I'm not sure what you mean by 'plug-ins on offer'. Either way instances of the same plug using DP and Logic is what I'm talking about.

<edit>
I understand now what you mean. While the number of available plug-ins with Logic is nice because you have more options, I'm more interested in saving time with CPU efficiency rather than options (although, SD would be nice since I imagine it's better than UAD's DreamVerb.)
</edit>

Richard

Plus its hall against church...different sound, too.

In a raw performance test the type of sound doesn't play a role.

sdfalk wrote:I just picked an instance of a software instrument like Cameleon 5000
and ran as many instances that I could under DP and Logic Express.
I got one more in Logic, BUT got a significantly lower track count
(in Logic) at the same sample rate.

Thanks for the info! Were you running DP at a higher sample rate than Logic Express when Logic Express was able to get one more instance, or by 'track count' are you talking about non-VI audio tracks? If you are able to get one more instance of a plug, then I'd say they are pretty close. If I were to guess about Logic vs. Logic Express, I'd guess that Express would be a touch more effecient than the full-blown product as it might have less overhead.

From what I've gathered, Logic nodes can only run tracks with Logic plugs (not AU or VST ports). So if I'm running EW Gold, then I can't use them via a node. While I want more power, I don't want to spend a lot of time learning a new product just so I can squeeze one or two more voices into an orchestration.

Thanks again for posting your test results.

Richard

Richard,

I was meaning the range of plug-ins the two apps have on board.

I ran some test with Altiverb and IR-1. 24/96 with buffers set to 256 and 1024. Dual 2.0 G5.

The plug-in instances are about the same. In LP7 I could run some 1-2 more instances. Not much, and track count, as mentioned by sdfalk is affected by this. I'd run more plug-ins but playback less tracks.

In LP it is possible to limit track count to a given amount. In addition there is something called process buffer range (which is not buffer setting) that can influence things, too.

I get similar results in DP by going under settings. Once done the result even out.

I got a "strange" result, though. I'll report about it a bit later.

Cheers

Archer wrote: The plug-in instances are about the same.
--snip--
I got a "strange" result, though. I'll report about it a bit later.

Cheers

Thanks! That's it, I sticking with DP. I can spend the money I save on some new plugs maybe!

I needed some more time to check the strange result...

Here it is...

Usually the buffer setting determines how many instances of a plug-in can be active. If one moves from 256 to 1024 the result is more headroom for plugs. If the move goes from 1024 to 256, less headroom means the CPU is going to be overtaxed if many plugs were instantiated.
This makes sense and DP sticks to this logic.

The funny thing happens with LP. If one instantiates a max of plugs for a mixdown situation with buffers @ 1024 and then makes a switch to 256, the performance meter in Logic won't overload. Logic will allow to use about the same number of plugs.

As I mentioned before, there are small differences in the total number of instances. However, Logic allows to use that total number of plugs even at lower buffer settings. I don't know why, and the manual doesn't seem to cover this point.

Currently, I think this is the reason why some claim LP to being able to run more plug-ins. Given this happens at lower buffer settings, I find it is a bit of a myth. Overall, I experienced greater stability at mixdwon when using higher buffer settings, both in DP and Logic. For this reason, I wouldn't recommend lower buffer settings and high numbers of plug-ins.

What is still not clear is if this more at lower settings has an impact on sonic quality. I need to run some more tests...

Also, due to latency/latency compensation, I find that it is very sensible to have two session setups: one for tracking, one for mixing.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Some clarifications....

In the tests I took a particular approach. I though to run the tests first with a high buffer setting, which would stand for a typical mix session. I decided to lower buffers only on a second time, because I find it is quite common to have a need to re-record/substitute some VIs. This allows to see how much taxing the buffer switch is.
Since I tend not to run raw performance test because they do not translate very well in real life situations, I was very surprised to see that Logic allows to run about the total amount of plug-ins one would expect with high buffers even at lower buffer settings. To my knowledge, it's the only app up to now that can do this.
Whether this is an advantage is very debatable. I think that more than else it impresses clients and users of other programs.

richard wrote:

sdfalk wrote:I just picked an instance of a software instrument like Cameleon 5000
and ran as many instances that I could under DP and Logic Express.
I got one more in Logic, BUT got a significantly lower track count
(in Logic) at the same sample rate.

Thanks for the info! Were you running DP at a higher sample rate than Logic Express when Logic Express was able to get one more instance, or by 'track count' are you talking about non-VI audio tracks? If you are able to get one more instance of a plug, then I'd say they are pretty close. If I were to guess about Logic vs. Logic Express, I'd guess that Express would be a touch more effecient than the full-blown product as it might have less overhead.

From what I've gathered, Logic nodes can only run tracks with Logic plugs (not AU or VST ports). So if I'm running EW Gold, then I can't use them via a node. While I want more power, I don't want to spend a lot of time learning a new product just so I can squeeze one or two more voices into an orchestration.

Thanks again for posting your test results.

Richard

Same Sample rates and audio tracks..(to answer your question)