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Michael Canavan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:29 pm I'm pretty sure Apple Silicon is their final form. A 1.3 Trillion dollar company can afford to bear the cost of making their own chips even if they have to buy the company that fabricates them.

Intel is the devil that Apple knows. We have a new player. Nvidia may foul the ARM playing field and by extension Apple silicon. Fun stuff . . . Maybe the antitrust folks will figure it all out.

CharlzS wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:15 am

Michael Canavan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:29 pm I'm pretty sure Apple Silicon is their final form. A 1.3 Trillion dollar company can afford to bear the cost of making their own chips even if they have to buy the company that fabricates them.

Intel is the devil that Apple knows. We have a new player. Nvidia may foul the ARM playing field and by extension Apple silicon. Fun stuff . . . Maybe the antitrust folks will figure it all out.

From what I understand there's absolutely no chance of Nvidia being able to mess with Apples Arm license. It's likely this is why they're completely silent about the acquisition. We're seeing Microsoft, Qualcom, and Google object to the acquisition, but Apple are silent. Apple were in on original designs for Arm, and probably have some extremely powerful contracts that make it impossible for Nvidia to do anything at all about Apple as a customer.
From the wiki on Arm:

n the late 1980s, Apple Computer and VLSI Technology started working with Acorn on newer versions of the ARM core. In 1990, Acorn spun off the design team into a new company named Advanced RISC Machines Ltd.,[43][44][45] which became ARM Ltd.

HCMarkus wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:48 am

PhireAlly wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:49 pmin Logic Pro they run in "Mixed Mode" ... M1 Native (if supported) or Rosetta 2 (Intel emulation).

I watched a video the other day in which the host demonstrated that Logic worked better (really well!) running under Rosetta 2. Have you tried that approach Mr. Ally?

I may have seen that video as well.

I did try Logic Pro in Rosetta 2 mode, but not extensively.
My approach is to use Logic Pro as the "proving DAW" for M1/ARM plugin compatibility
and use Studio One v5 and DP 9.52 exclusively for Rosetta 2 plugin testing.
This way, when Studio One and DP goes "Apple Silicon" native, I'll have a good indication of which plugins work and which ones "need" work.

Here's a little example...
In Logic Pro (running in "Apple Silicon" native mode) some of my UAD plugins doesn't show up in the list.
Flux's Studio Session Pack plugins also doesn't show up either but... they all do in DP and Studio One.
Even when I put Logic Pro into Rosetta 2 mode, they still fail to show up in their respective lists.

Testing is ongoing.
PhireAlly

My approach is to use Logic Pro as the "proving DAW" for M1/ARM plugin compatibility
and use Studio One v5 and DP 9.52 exclusively for Rosetta 2 plugin testing.
This way, when Studio One and DP goes "Apple Silicon" native, I'll have a good indication of which plugins work and which ones "need" work.

Great stuff! I hope you will keep us informed as you progress with the M1; I know I am not alone in planning a move to Apple Silicon in the not-too-distant future. Thanks for undertaking the task and reporting your results!

HCMarkus wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:16 pm

My approach is to use Logic Pro as the "proving DAW" for M1/ARM plugin compatibility
and use Studio One v5 and DP 9.52 exclusively for Rosetta 2 plugin testing.
This way, when Studio One and DP goes "Apple Silicon" native, I'll have a good indication of which plugins work and which ones "need" work.

Great stuff! I hope you will keep us informed as you progress with the M1; I know I am not alone in planning a move to Apple Silicon in the not-too-distant future. Thanks for undertaking the task and reporting your results!

Ditto on that note !! We've gotta move on somehow

HCMarkus wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:16 pm
Great stuff! I hope you will keep us informed as you progress with the M1; I know I am not alone in planning a move to Apple Silicon in the not-too-distant future. Thanks for undertaking the task and reporting your results!

My pleasure and I'll be happy to share my observations as I learn more.

UPDATE:
In Logic, some plugins from Plugin-Alliance that initially failed AU validation, passed AU validation on individual rescan in Logic Pro's plugin manager.
Some plugins from IK Multimedia, Flux, TB Pro Audio, Plugin-Alliance and UAD continue to fail AU validation.

One anomaly is iZotope Neutron 3 Advanced .... It also fails AU validation but... its individual components passed AU validation and work normally.

Keep in mind that these are running using Rosetta 2 within Logic Pro.

My currently installed M1/ARM native plugins from...
Bertom Audio, FabFilter, Kazrog, Melda Production, Tokyo Dawn Labs and Valhalla DSP are all performing as expected and without issue.

SIDE NOTE:
My currently unsupported MOTU 1248 is performing beautifully (over Ethernet) as an "AVB" Audio Interface using the built-in Apple AVB Driver.
It also performs equally beautiful as a "Class Compliant" Audio Interface (over USB) using the built-in Apple Core Audio Driver.

This bleeding edge stuff is exciting ... to some degree

I'll keep you all posted,
PhireAlly

Thanks Phirel I'm really interested in the RAM limitations. I've heard reports that the M1 can page out successfully quite a bit, but can begin to stutter with large orchestral libraries.

PhireAlly wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:21 pmIn Logic, some plugins from Plugin-Alliance that initially failed AU validation, passed AU validation on individual rescan in Logic Pro's plugin manager.

Happens here too with Logic, and has for a long time. There are always some plugins that fail the first scan and then pass on repeating the scan. I've also just used plugins that won't pass the AU scan in Logic, but pass the AU scan in other DAWs, and never had a problem with them.

cuttime wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:28 pm Thanks Phirel I'm really interested in the RAM limitations. I've heard reports that the M1 can page out successfully quite a bit, but can begin to stutter with large orchestral libraries.

Hey cuttime,
I mostly Mix and Master, as a result, I don't have any Virtual Instruments installed on the M1 MacMini with which I can perform such tests.
My VI's remain housed on my 2013, 27" Intel i5 iMac, which has been relegated to production status (if needed).

I may consider installing Vienna Ensemble Pro on the M1 MacMini but... it will be primarily to facilitate access to my TC Electronic PowerCore which still runs on the iMac under MacOS "Mojave".

We'll see ??
PhireAlly

UPDATE 2:
In DP 9.52, Waves v12 plugins are displaying GUI errors. The GUI's are "inverted" 180 degrees and displays a sort of "mirrored" effect.
Waves v10 and v11 are not exhibiting this behavior.

In Studio One v5 and Logic Pro, all 3 Waves versions behave normally.

Since I've posted the list of installed plugin developers (on Page 2), I've now installed SoundToys 5.3.3 (Rosetta 2 emulation).
They are behaving normally in all 3 DAWs.

Remember..
DP 9.52 and DP10 are unsupported on the M1/ARM platform (as of this post).
So I'm never terribly surprised when things don't work as expected.

PhireAlly

this happened in Luna as well, and PT 2020. an update to the Waves 12 plugins fixed it. Might try giving the old Waves Central a run thru. Its all about using Metal for graphics vs Open GL. I believe the M1s are Metal only? Anyone know for sure?

PhireAlly wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:23 pm UPDATE 2:
In DP 9.52, Waves v12 plugins are displaying GUI errors. The GUI's are "inverted" 180 degrees and displays a sort of "mirrored" effect.
Waves v10 and v11 are not exhibiting this behavior.

In Studio One v5 and Logic Pro, all 3 Waves versions behave normally.

Since I've posted the list of installed plugin developers (on Page 2), I've now installed SoundToys 5.3.3 (Rosetta 2 emulation).
They are behaving normally in all 3 DAWs.

Remember..
DP 9.52 and DP10 are unsupported on the M1/ARM platform (as of this post).
So I'm never terribly surprised when things don't work as expected.

PhireAlly

Also on 9.52 and go the same with the update to Waves 12. They said it was because of some resources still using 32 bit some where, and that the new DP (10) would work fine... So, I reverted back to Waves 11 for now.

That’s excellent news that DP 9.5 works un R2 mode. Can anyone confirm DP10 also works like this? I see no reason why not but you never know .

arumdevil wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:01 am Can anyone confirm DP10 also works like this?

The people that write it and sell it say is doesn't. But what do they know?

bayswater wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:13 am

arumdevil wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:01 am Can anyone confirm DP10 also works like this?

The people that write it and sell it say is doesn't. But what do they know?

Since DP isn’t quite compatible with Big Sur, no reason to believe that it will just work over R2.

Yesterday, I was trying to troubleshoot problems one of my band members is having with Performer Lite. I’ll spare you the details but I was an hour into this before we did some screen sharing and I saw a Big Sur desktop. Oh…

C’mon MOTU. Hurry up!