Bring back the Loop tool in DP 10.11

[HCMarkus]

And yes, I have (used to have?) a habit of using the Track overview as a handy macro editor, opening Sequence for detailed work, of course.

Me too. It is often handy to make a selection within zoomed-in SE, then move in zoomed-out TO. You can go from super detailed view to big picture view really easily that way. Also easy to move MIDI data from track to track in TO.

But, yes, I, too, recall running Performer v1.x on my 1980s-era original (albeit modestly upgraded) original Macintosh.

[bayswater]

I think there's one thing you clearly can't do with clips that you can do with looping, and unfortunately it's the way I use to use looping.

I hate simple click tracks and I find I can get a better performance from someone with some sort of simple groove. Sometimes it's still simple, but if I tailor it to the song it gives the musician a better foundation to play to, especially at the beginning of tracking an overdub project. So, I start with a one or two measure percussion groove using the Drum Editor, make a selection and set it to infinite loop if there are no charts. (If there are charts I already know the number of measures and I can set the loop number.) Once through the tune with a scratch track and I can set the loop number, put in all my markers, etc.

At this point I could have done all this with clips. Agreed. But, here's where loops was so much easier. When it comes time for a subsequent track a musician may request something different. "Can you give me the 16th note subdivisions with that? Maybe on a shaker?" With loops all I have to do is go into the Drum Editor and add a shaker. Takes about 30 seconds. With clips I have to unpack make changes repack and resize. Not a dealbreaker, but it's still more time consuming.

JMHO
Your friendly neighborhood Phil

Phil, is there a reason you wouldn't edit the clip in the clip editor? I'm not following why you need to unpack the clip, lose the looping etc. I can see why it's often easier to add a new drum instrument using the Drum editor, but if you know the note plays the shaker you can just add that in the clip editor without unpacking etc.

(I'd like to be able to tell the Clip and Sequence editor to show note names (like snare, etc) than notes (like C1). With that there wouldn't be much of a need for the drum editor.)

[italodisco]

IS there a way to make infinite loops with clips?
I mean to be used in the sequence editor, not the Abletonesque clip window.

Thanks.

[Michael Canavan]

IS there a way to make infinite loops with clips?
I mean to be used in the sequence editor, not the Abletonesque clip window.

Thanks.

As of now, select MIDI or audio, pack into a Clip, then loop, you can zoom out and loop 1500+ measures if you wanted to, so yeah RTFM, especially after reading this thread detailing all of this.

Even easier, the Clip window you hate so much apparently, toss the clip into the Clip window, loop that one track and it will play until you're computer dies if you want it to.

[Phil O]

Phil, is there a reason you wouldn't edit the clip in the clip editor? I'm not following why you need to unpack the clip, lose the looping etc. I can see why it's often easier to add a new drum instrument using the Drum editor, but if you know the note plays the shaker you can just add that in the clip editor without unpacking etc.

(I'd like to be able to tell the Clip and Sequence editor to show note names (like snare, etc) than notes (like C1). With that there wouldn't be much of a need for the drum editor.)

Yeah, the drum editor is just so much easier to use. Let's say I do want to add that shaker (16th notes). Just set the divisions to 16ths and drag across 1 measure with the pencil tool - about three seconds. You can select from pre-arranged kits or percussion groups. It's the sort of thing I can do on the fly without thinking about it. What's that MIDI note for stick tip on HH in slate drums again? Yeah, it's just so much easier. I haven't messed with the clip editor much, but it seems kind of clunky. I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and get good at it.

Your friendly neighborhood Phil

[italodisco]

IS there a way to make infinite loops with clips?
I mean to be used in the sequence editor, not the Abletonesque clip window.

Thanks.

As of now, select MIDI or audio, pack into a Clip, then loop, you can zoom out and loop 1500+ measures if you wanted to, so yeah RTFM, especially after reading this thread detailing all of this.

Even easier, the Clip window you hate so much apparently, toss the clip into the Clip window, loop that one track and it will play until you're computer dies if you want it to.

First of all,

> loop 1500+ measures
vs
> infinite clips

Secondly,

> in the sequence editor

So in sum: no, there isn't, then? (RMFP...Read My F*$&ing Post. )

And I did RTFM, btw...that was as bit of self-depreciation b/c I couldn't figure out how to do something that is, apparently, impossible to do.

[Michael Canavan]

First of all,

> loop 1500+ measures
vs
> infinite clips

Secondly,

> in the sequence editor

So in sum: no, there isn't, then? (RMFP...Read My F*$&ing Post. )

And I did RTFM, btw...that was as bit of self-depreciation b/c I couldn't figure out how to do something that is, apparently, impossible to do.

There's nothing impossible about it, it's just not exactly what you want personally.
You set up parameters on how it should work, and are upset that it doesn't work that way.
It's a recipe for failure if there ever was one, especially with complex evolving software.

It's 100% possible to use loops in DP10, in fact I would argue it's improved, but it's not like it used to be.

[Kellog]

So... been exploring this looping thing trying to get back to a flow that works to start sketching ideas.
VERY important is the clip editor window that appears by double clicking the clip after you've packed the clip and placed it in the clips window. I was confused 'til I got the start time (at the top of the clip editor window), and the loop start and end times right (it is all very similar to what I used to do with the previous looping system). The 'start' time has to do with where does the sequence start when I hit play. Whereas the Loop start and end determine what will the loop itself actually consist of. And I believe you do have to hit the play triangle for each clip once (or the scene if you want all of the clips in that scene to loop) for them to play. Then they do indeed play endlessly. Thats what I wanted for now.
Im mindful that all may be "well, duh" for some of you. Took me a while to 'see' it and be able to work/write. Feeling better about it all at least for now

[Phil O]

The three things that remain a PIA though are no integration with the Drum Editor, no (or poor) integration with the Event List and the inability to set the number of times to loop (you can loop infinitely or not at all) in the Clip Editor. To set a fixed number of loops you must do it in a track in the SE window and to edit the clip you must unpack, edit, then pack into clip and resize.

Your friendly neighborhood Phil

[Michael Canavan]

The three things that remain a PIA though are no integration with the Drum Editor, no (or poor) integration with the Event List and the inability to set the number of times to loop (you can loop infinitely or not at all) in the Clip Editor. To set a fixed number of loops you must do it in a track in the SE window and to edit the clip you must unpack, edit, then pack into clip and resize.

Your friendly neighborhood Phil

You're right about everything but the underlined. The idea of the Clips window is non linear based looping, i.e. not having a set loop length is part of the design of the Clips window. Not a single other DAW that does Clips, not Live, Bitwig, Logic etc. has loop lengths in their Session, Launcher, Loop windows. These windows are independent of the the linear arrangement timelines in Tracks and Sequence views, you can choose to override individual tracks to use the subsequent track in the Clips window, but they do not exist in a timeline per say, each track is it's own timeline. Clips in the Clips window are an on/off thing, by design.

[Phil O]

All I said was that you can't do it and that's a PIA. Are you saying I'm wrong that you can't do it? I'm confused.