DP 10: a second attempt

[toddbooster]

@Gravity Jim

I don't know you, and I haven't been on this forum for very long, but I'm saddend to see you frustrated into giving up over what is a fixable computer problem. We know DP 10 runs in MAC OS, we know you previously had 9.52 running well as well. There aren't so many permutations of Mac hardware and software that would make your machine uniquely problematic; it's not like you're running some old Windows box cobbled together out of random bits and pieces.

Anyway, it's best sometimes in these situations to just take everything back to the bare metal. Wipe your drive and reinstall everything from scratch. Maybe it's knee jerk reaction from the Windows user in me, but I say kill it with fire and grow it again. You'll be back in business before you know it.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Hey Jim, I certainly empathize with your situation. Been there once with DP (DP6) and a few times with Finale. And while I am not trying to change you decision to jump ship, I will say that sometimes when I thought all was lost a complete clean install of the OS was required and really did fix a lot of stuff. I suspect your setup might be more complex than mine. I don't think i have anywhere near as many plugs, and even so, I only activate the ones I use a lot and keep the others unchecked in the preferences. This has also made a big difference in my setup.

My only observation is that with that many plugins, it wouldn't surprise me if there was maybe just a few (maybe even one) that is causing the evaluation issues. I would crash DP 9 EVERY TIME I bounced to disk with the PSP Xenon [img]VST[/img] plug activated. Moving to the AU version "fixed" it.

FWIW, I've been working in DP10 doing post on a film MIDI and audio) as well as a few other scores and in my 10-14 hours a day working over several weeks now, DP 10 has crashed exactly once.

I am sorry to see you leave the app, but again, I've been there. I moved to Sibelius about 10 years ago and after a year of trying, moved back to Finale. Then MakeMusic killed the movie window and I was sure I'd never upgrade past version 2014.5. Then a gig came along that needed both Finale and a movie window and I worked out a workflow (not using Rewire) that uses DP for picture and sequencing and I transcribe to Finale. It's actually a lot faster than what I was doing before.

I suppose my point is this: it can really look like it's useless to keep moving forward in a constantly crashing app. In my experience, it's always a few "little things" that cause what seem to be insurmountable problems.

Good luck in your transition, man. Come say hey every so often...

[Michael Canavan]

I'd be writing all day if I was to do that for VST3 <-- obvious why that format is taking so long to become the standard.

It's not taking long to become the standard, it is the defacto standard; the VST2 API is deprecated, and DP is one of the last mainstream DAWs to implement VST3 support.

The DP plugin scanner is bonkers. It routinely fails known good actors that perform flawlessly everywhere else. I used Slate VMR and VTT the entire time I ran 9.5 with no issues, despite failing validation. I'd take DPs assessment of a plugin's quality with a seriously big grain of salt.

Honestly, the VST2 versions of the plug ins it failed evaluation on were 100% the causes of crashes. I made DP run them anyway, and DP crashed, I used the AU version that didn't fail evaluation, and DP doesn't crash.

VST3, I wrote my assessment of it about the beta in Live a while ago, but it's the same in DP I'm betting.
The promise was a resting VST3 plug in would relinquish CPU back to the DAW, not seeing that.
VST2 in the meantime also became resizable.. It is one plug in compared to 2 -4 in VST2, that's cool, just like AU..

Plug in developers hate it, there's no polite way to put it. U-He and FXpansion are examples. U-He still does not do MIDI learn as a VST3, it's a total PITA apparently to implement compared to 2 and AU. FXpansion are boycotting it entirely, that's right, no VST3 plug ins from them. BTW FXpansion developers wrote pages about the annoyance and general uselessness of AU when it came out, but conversely knew enough about it to develop an effective VST to AU wrapper, tech that to this day is reportedly being used by smaller Windows based developers to port to AU. NI are still not VST3 capable. Live's VST3 implementation is in beta as I type. In fact a lot of plug in developers I use still do not do VST3.

I'm looking forward to VST3 when the benefits pay off, but I was that dork who jumped to Logic and OSX when Logic first came out on OSX, and that was fun, but a waste of time. Better to have the format pay out it's dividends than to jump on it before it's mature IMO.

[Michael Canavan]

This morning I tried creating a new user ID, but I never found out if DP 9.5 would run okay in the new environment because it was taking a ridiculous amount of time to validate AU plugs. After about 30 minutes, it had managed to validate about a dozen of my 640+ plug ins.

I can't run DP10, and I can't run 9.52. So I'm done. My career is close to ending, and I can finish it up using Logic.

The members of this forum have been an extraordinary resource over the 25 years I've been using MOTU software and hardware... especially James Steele, for putting up with the frustrations to keep us going. Thank you all very much.

I jumped ship to Logic once. Got a copy of Logic X while taking college classes last year along with Final Cut.
Some things I really like in X, the articulations manager is slick, and MPE support is nice. I actually don't mind object oriented MIDI either, I've never fully gotten the push back against it here. After that though, I pretty much hate everything else about it's MIDI input implementation. Drives me batty, Live, DP, Cubase all just stomp Logics sorry *ss when it comes to setting up multiple MIDI inputs. Basically Logic seems to have lost the ability to have multiple controllers assigned to various keyboards in your studio... You never were able to assign a port to a software instrument, but I couldn't even get it to assign a different input to a hardware instrument than a generic MIDI channel... blehgh!!

Beyond that, what with how much you know DP, I'm betting the man hours lost re learning a DAW is going to drive you out of your mind alone. It's really too bad you're not local, I've become really good at problem solving these sorts of issues over the years, I'm certain I could straighten it out in a day. It is funny how different DAWs crash in evaluation on different plug ins though, VEP crashes three or four times on evaluation on startup when it gets an update, then works.

Maybe it's knee jerk reaction from the Windows user in me, but I say kill it with fire and grow it again. You'll be back in business before you know it.

I don't think that's a bad idea. I'm getting more the impression that it would be a couple days of installs to get all his plug ins authorized on a fresh instal and back though.

[danworks]

I did a MacOS clean install cos DP10 was not supporting Yosemite, then all the plugs n stuff. It has been a gargantuan pita but now I'm working with DP10 and I never ever had the need to launch DP9.52 again.

[davidh]

Final (I hope) update on this from me. I removed the MAS folder and the two preferences folders that Brendan recommended and reinstalled DP10. Everything worked fine. I went through my previous MAS folder and compared it to the one that had just been installed and saw that there were some slightly older versions of some WaveArts plugins in that folder. I confirmed that adding them into the active MAS folder caused DP to crash, so I removed them and installed the most recent version of those plugs and everything seems to be working now with full functionality.

A little after the event, but WaveArts have just released a new Mojave compatible version of TrackPlug/Mastersuite

[Gravity Jim]

I couldn't give up 25 years of experience with DP without trying again. So....

This morning, I decided I'd give the demo a try, see what I could see. In the meantime, I had scoured my machine and removed every last trace of MOTU, shooting for a fresh install.

Just in case, I renamed the existing copy of DP to "Digital Performer 9." Imagine my surprise when DP 10 installed "over" DP 9, even after renaming it! Gee, I sure hope it works, sez I to myself.

Long story short... I ended up repurchasing DP10, and it is running A-OK so far. It has even sailed through a couple of torture tests that previously crashed it hard. Apparently I finally threw away something that was reacting badly to the new install. Here's hoping I don't need any further help.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I love a happy ending!

[terrybritton]

Don't you ever do anything like that again, Jim! You gave us all such a fright that you scared us half to death!

Terry

[monkey man]

I couldn't give up 25 years of experience with DP without trying again.

Thank God, Jim.

Just in case, I renamed the existing copy of DP to "Digital Performer 9." Imagine my surprise when DP 10 installed "over" DP 9, even after renaming it! Gee, I sure hope it works, sez I to myself.

I always zip it up FWIMBW, Jim; zero risk of its being installed over that way.

Long story short... I ended up repurchasing DP10, and it is running A-OK so far. It has even sailed through a couple of torture tests that previously crashed it hard.

This made my day, Jim!

The thought of seeing you go was horrible and I was quietly hoping for a breakthrough. Actually, I was confident something would happen 'cause even a point-nought version of DP couldn't possibly be that bad. Even v6, our all-time least-favourite, despite its shortcomings, actually ran.

Great stuff, man!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU

[Gravity Jim]

LOL! You guys are hilarious.

It's still doing something I hate, but it must have something to do with something running in the background... it locks up and stops responding if I let it sit. I haven't changed a thing in my system, but now it's getting killed by a screen saver or something. I'm sure MOTU can help me track down the culprit.

DP10 now and for the future....

[MIDI Life Crisis]

While I don't get lockups in DP, the Track 16 will lose connectivity if I startup anything on the TB bus. The T16 is 800FW, connected to TB via an Apple adaptor. Not even a wild guess here, but when it freezes up, you might want to check if an audio device dropped out. That will sometimes impact Finale. I'm assuming you've disabled all screen savers and don't let your drives sleep. That will most certainly freeze up pretty much everything on my systems.

[Gravity Jim]

Thanks, MLC. I always have the Mac set to never sleep, but this weekend I'm experimenting with various "interruptions," to attempt to figure out what exactly is interfering with DP. Even as I'm typing this, I'm checking to see if opening a browser is the culprit.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Another thing that has been problematic is that I keep DP at 48k, but some apps want 44k and launching them while DP is at 48 will also created glitch or two. Just another avenue to consider...