Virtual Instruments - how many?

[mikehalloran]

Besides Eric's remarks, MainStage 3 has three things going for it:

It's cheap at $29.99 through the App Store.

Owning it qualifies you for a competitive upgrade to MachFive3 (EXS24 – any version)
https://www.motu.com/store_products/software/machfive

You can open the EXS24 libraries in MachV if you like any of them.

The competitive upgrade can be purchased through a reseller, also (I got mine through Sweetwater by clicking on the link). As long as you own an iLok, it will work. You then mail your proof of ownership of the qualifying product to MOTU who will then give you a serial number so that you are eligible for support and upgrades. Make sure that you are a registered user at motu.com first – if registered as a DP or hardware owner already, that's fine. You will later log into your account to retrieve your serial number.

[stubbsonic]

I don't disagree with the criticisms of Apple's included VI's with MainStage.

However, I think that the sampler is decent. Not Kontakt, but not awful. Sculpture is the physical modeling synth in MainStage and it is fascinating and great.

All of MS3's VI's have a similar kind of "trying-too-hard" interfaces that are attempting to look like sci-fi spaceship controls. It's ok, except when things get too tiny.

[Shooshie]

But their synths feel like cheap versions of better stuff out there.

That's exactly what they are! But their weakness can also be their strength. They are so simplified that if you know how the synth you want to emulate works, you can quickly pick out the MOTU synth to work with, and in seconds you can have a mock up of the sound you want. It's not perfect, but it's close. Then, if you like, you can add EQ later to spiff it up a little.

MOTU's bundled synths are not powerhouses. (that will change in DP9) But they are quick, easy simulations of other synths that almost make a mockery of other such simulations. Of course, if you want the real thing, you'll pay for it both in money and time.

It's important to remember, here, that you're not locked into MOTU synths in any way. They are completely optional. Logic's big instrument, whose name slips my mind at the moment, is much more integral to the program. I've always believed that if you want something in particular, you should go to the source for it, and not expect a "bundled" version of it in a DAW. I laughed at MOTU's synths at first, but then I realized just how cool they really are. They aren't supposed to take the place of anything. They just give you a quick and dirty mockup to use when you want it. And... if you get what you want, you can use it. Nobody's checking brand names on sounds in a finished piece.

Shooshie

[Morpheo]

Logic's big instrument, whose name slips my mind at the moment, is much more integral to the program.

EXS24 perhaps? ...People keep praising Logic for the number of VIs and patches...That's cool but in reality, the bundled sounds are really not great imo. They sound dated and are not very "flexible". And speaking of dated, EXS24 needs a major overhaul but I don't know why Apple hasn't touched it yet. I have a lot of Eastwest samples (Hollywood libraries, Symphonic, Storm Drum, etc), plus some Vienna, Reason (talk about cheap factory sounds!) and I recently bought Komplete 9 (I'll skip 10 and most likely upgrade when 11 comes out). These are what I use when I need VIs. On Pro Tools I never use Avid's intruments, and on DP I (almost) never use MOTU's either, except MachFive, which I have at work. That will probably change with MX4 and DP9, but I've always thought the VIs that come with a DAW are usually a nice little extra, but in fact not very useful for serious work. Oh and last but not least, I thought Ivory would be the only piano I 'd need, it turns out Pianoteq keeps impressing me every time I use it.

[stubbsonic]

I would throw my money at MOTU if they put MachFive in the DP9 bundle. They would have to wear some kind of protective gear for how hard I would throw it.

The addition of the MX4 is a nice added feature. The demo wasn't that impressive to me, but I like wavetable synthesis and I expect MOTU will have done a good job with it.

I don't think Logic's VI's are any more integral to their program than MOTU's. Though one could argue that they are in some cases more useful.

It is sickeningly true that those VI's in Logic and MS3 are in desperate need of upgrades; sonically, in terms of features, and in those interfaces which don't hold up in the context of the rest of the software GUI.

I really like the new MIDI plugins with MS3.

[mikehalloran]

Logic's big instrument, whose name slips my mind at the moment, is much more integral to the program.

EXS24 perhaps? ..

It's ESX24.

MainStage gives you a live performance interface. Other than that, as far as I can tell, the bundled libraries are the same. If you have Logic Pro X like I do, no reason to buy MainStage 3 unless you want the live interface. It's pretty cool interface, btw.

I used to have Logic Studio 8 and 9 which included MainStage. There are 32bit/64bit issues with the various versions that aren't important to this discussion except that the current Apple products are 64bit only now.

Except for the fact that Logic costs $200 instead of $30, what I wrote earlier applies regarding MachFive3.

[mikehalloran]

I don't think Logic's VI's are any more integral to their program than MOTU's.

Perhaps. I'm not sure that, as long as they work, it really matters … to Apple, that is.

Logic Pro is $200. That's $100 less than LP-9 and way, way cheaper than LS-9 and 8, both of which were half the price of 7 and so on… MainStage is $30.

Like many of the other "professional" Apple applications, these don't have many of the features that they used to. There is a large list by now.

They have become inexpensive applications with features that many professionals do find useful. They work and there are no exact counterparts in the PC universe. I believe the point is that they run on Macs.

Back in the mid 1980s, the adage was, "Find the software that does the job and buy the hardware that runs it." I bought my Mac+ after a demo of FileMaker. The chat boards can say, 'There's a full-featured DAW with a ton of VIs and loops for $200 and you get it from Apple. Oh yea, it only runs on a Mac.' GarageBand is free except on iOS where it costs, what, $5?

How many of us tell those wanting to get into recording to buy a Mac and download Audacity? No, we say that, when you buy a Mac, you can get your feet wet with GB. Buy a MOTU interface and it comes w/ AudioDesk instead of CakeWalk Lite

If Apple never updates ESX24 except to 64bit (as they have), it's because they don't care what we think. We're not the reason you can buy it for $30 or $200. If Apple changes its mind on this, it will likely be so that they can sell more hardware.

The last three versions of Mac OS cost what? What used to be iWork and iLife cost how much now?

Anyone price Windows lately?

[monkey man]

It's ESX24.

EXS24 mkII
https://documentation.apple.com/en/logi ... ion_0.html

You're funny nick

I can only assume you're havin' a dig, Magilla, 'cause I wasn't funny at all. Certainly not in that instance. Heck, IMHO, I'm not funny at the best of times. Entertaining, perhaps, but not funny per-se.

Still, I put myself out there, so if ya wanna sling some whopping-great gorilla poo at me, I hereby receive it with a smile, bud.

Take care, Magilla.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Oh.

Gee, I didn't sound intelligent either, Magilla... What a goose of a simian I am.

You don't think that's funny. YOU'VE NO SENSE OF HUMOR! We're threw [sic]

[monkey man]

OK, OK, you're an easier room these days, my ever-faithful simian simile. You're too kind. Thank you for the vote of confidence.

Actually, I'll take any vote you wanna throw at me... only, please don't vote with poop; the MLI cleanup line is all outta stock right now. Then again, my being smeared with that which for me has been a speciality clean-up object as well as, well, let's face it, the focus of my life, would undoubtedly be hilarious to some.

That reminds me, and just to clarify what I was getting at: I was certainly the most entertaining fella at every school I attended back in the day, but not 'cause, IMHO, I was funny, but rather because I wore my heart on my sleeve, was so self-depricating and, let's face it, was such a goose. I'm still a goose, I reckon. Just an older one, but I'll never become a old one. Hopefully. My childishness is may best feature.

Sorry for the indulgence, and thank you again, maaate.

[Hobbles off into the distance]
Gobble gobble... gobble gobble...

[MIDI Life Crisis]

[Robert Randolph]

MOTU's bundled synths are not powerhouses. (that will change in DP9)

Shooshie

Do you have some information other than what's been made public about DP9?

All I saw is that they're adding a plugin called 'Megasynth', which doesn't look like much of a powerhouse at all, and MX4 which is not even close to a 'powerhouse' by today's standards.

[musicman691]

MOTU's bundled synths are not powerhouses. (that will change in DP9)

Shooshie

Do you have some information other than what's been made public about DP9?

All I saw is that they're adding a plugin called 'Megasynth', which doesn't look like much of a powerhouse at all, and MX4 which is not even close to a 'powerhouse' by today's standards.

Agreed but look at it this way - MX4 now comes as part of the package and DP users no longer have to buy it separately. Synthmaster is a real powerhouse; it covers everything MX4 does and more and has been great for me.

[Shooshie]

MOTU's bundled synths are not powerhouses. (that will change in DP9)

Shooshie

Do you have some information other than what's been made public about DP9?

All I saw is that they're adding a plugin called 'Megasynth', which doesn't look like much of a powerhouse at all, and MX4 which is not even close to a 'powerhouse' by today's standards.

Picky, picky, picky!



Shooshie

[Robert Randolph]

MOTU's bundled synths are not powerhouses. (that will change in DP9)

Shooshie

Do you have some information other than what's been made public about DP9?

All I saw is that they're adding a plugin called 'Megasynth', which doesn't look like much of a powerhouse at all, and MX4 which is not even close to a 'powerhouse' by today's standards.

Picky, picky, picky!



Shooshie

Yeah, I thought about what I wrote sounding a bit pretentious and/or snide. It's still true though I think, and I'm still curious if you have any non-public info about dp9