A couple tricks and fastest options for SSDs out now.

[Michael Canavan]

The Trim issues created by Apple with Yosemite are one of the reasons I have not migrated my studio Mac to this version of OSX.

IMO, and I say this with no emotional investment whatsoever, you're overestimating the importance of TRIM. Apple did not have it on their first blessed SSDs for instance, not I believe out of laziness. Again you're running SSDs on the SATA bus in the mac pro, which is far, far more of a bottleneck than the lack of TRIM support for third party SSDs in Yosemite.

Because I think this is one of those internet things that get out of hand and I'm already going to be the guy who doesn't enable TRIM in Yosemite I'm more than willing to set myself up as a guinea pig. So once I get my authorizations up and running and DP etc. going on this M.2 I'lll run the Disk speed test again for a base speed. If after a year of use the speed slips 20%, then I can say that TRIM might be useful. Otherwise you're relying on the idea based on only intuition that Apple protected the kernel even further in Yosemite to prevent people from using third party TRIM enablers.

[mhschmieder]

Cool. Good luck, Michael, and all power to you as well as thanks for sharing.

[Michael Canavan]

Useful information, and good explanations.

The reason I'm looking at PCIe is that my regular drive bays are already full, and ready for yet another seize upgrade or two as well. I now have close to 6 GB of sample data, between all the drum and orchestral libraries (everything else is tiny in comparison).

I don't know anything about SATA2 or SATA3. My current SSD system drive is in the second optical slot, dangling, since everyone said that's OK with a non-mechanical drive.

Still not sure what to do, so I'll wait for more discussion. I thought OWC'S PCIe w/ eSATA ports was my only realistic option (or for anyone else with a 2010 MacPro as well), and liked how I could then part with my current eSATA PCIe card and free up a slot for more SSD expansion (I use eSATA for my external backup drives).

My reply got hosed by the server...

Basically look at the SATA comparison chart at the bottom of this page, the part about transfer speeds. eSATA is much slower than USB 3 which is much slower than the PCIe bus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Expres ... xpress_2.0 Which at x4 is roughly 2000mbs transfer speeds.

eSATA runs at the same speed as the system SATA bus in Mac Pros 300mbs
SSDs with the SATA form factor will be twice as fast if they don't hook into an eSATA converter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA#eSATA

[mhschmieder]

Cool, but unless having those external eSATA ports (a convenience, as far as I can tell) on the OWC PCIe-based SSD for some reason slows down the SSD for internal use (the eSATA is for external backup drives), I think it's still the best option, unless it's better to search for something that has USB3 for external connections (at which point I'd need to see if there's an equivalent to newertechnology's Voyager Q, which I use with standard internal drives that are stored in cases vs. mounted in external housing).

[HCMarkus]

IMO, and I say this with no emotional investment whatsoever, you're overestimating the importance of TRIM.

And you may be right!

I just wanted to present my perspective on the matter for others' consideration.

[James Steele]

There are other reasons, not the least being I prefer to not be an early adaptor/beta tester. The biggest reason is DP8.07 and Mountain Lion have proven to be a virtually flawless combination, and that makes me and my clients very happy.

I have to add that I was only on that combo briefly, but my Mountain Lion / DP8.07 experience was about the best, most stable experience I can recall in a while. I almost went back to ML when I had to do the reformat and clean install recently. What stopped me was FCPX which, unfortunately, requires Mavericks or later. So I just went ahead and installed Yosemite again, hoping that doing it RIGHT this time (fresh install as opposed to years' worth of "migration") would improve things and also hoping Apple would have some further optimization available for us in a 10.10.2 release in the not-so-distant future.

[Michael Canavan]

Cool, but unless having those external eSATA ports (a convenience, as far as I can tell) on the OWC PCIe-based SSD for some reason slows down the SSD for internal use (the eSATA is for external backup drives), I think it's still the best option, unless it's better to search for something that has USB3 for external connections (at which point I'd need to see if there's an equivalent to newertechnology's Voyager Q, which I use with standard internal drives that are stored in cases vs. mounted in external housing).

Here's the rub, eSATA isn't a protocol that requires any hardware really besides the connection itself, that's why it will deliver transfer speeds of 300mbs, but if SATA 3 at 600mbs isn't backwards compatible with it then the manufacturer will just slow the whole
card to SATA 2 or 300mbs, if they can find a way to save money they do. I would
ask the dealer or see if you can't get detailed specs before purchasing.

[mhschmieder]

Well, this is all really over my head, so I'm going to consult with my support guy here at work, even though he's mostly a Linux guy. At least it will be easier to have a bunch of back-and-forth discussions and questions vs. a forum discussion. If I learn anything useful from him that hasn't been mentioned here yet, I'll post it in this discussion.

I have deliberately avoided being a "computer expert" since switching over to application domain programming in the late 90's, as I wear so many hats as it is, so I try to delegate what I can. The problem with that approach, at times, is that the people I delegate to here at work, do not have needs anywhere on the scale of mine as an audio producer, and those that also do audio production tend to be ProTools or Logic snobs (or even Cubase). I'm one of only one or two DP people here at the office. I get ridiculed for it.

[Michael Canavan]

Well, this is all really over my head, so I'm going to consult with my support guy here at work, even though he's mostly a Linux guy. At least it will be easier to have a bunch of back-and-forth discussions and questions vs. a forum discussion. If I learn anything useful from him that hasn't been mentioned here yet, I'll post it in this discussion.

I have deliberately avoided being a "computer expert" since switching over to application domain programming in the late 90's, as I wear so many hats as it is, so I try to delegate what I can. The problem with that approach, at times, is that the people I delegate to here at work, do not have needs anywhere on the scale of mine as an audio producer, and those that also do audio production tend to be ProTools or Logic snobs (or even Cubase). I'm one of only one or two DP people here at the office. I get ridiculed for it.

We are opposites that way my friend, I'm not a programmer at all, but over the years I've gotten good at hardware and problem solving, basically to make sure my DAW OSX machine works, and setting up audio on a laptop made it even more important to be able to understand.

[mhschmieder]

Well, due to how stressed for time I almost always am, I choose to minimize the things that are the least deterministic in time estimates, and that sort of thing is a black hole. In the 80's it was my specialty. As I became more of an architect (though I'm a one-man-show here so have to do it all), I had to refocus and reprioritize, and the end result is that I am extremely reliable in my time estimates.

I just spoke with my devops guy, and he recommends the Samsung solution with a grow-it-myself PCIe host (he suggested using a SATA bay until I explained that none of those host the current system drive and themselves are already on the verge of needing their second size boost in a year), if I don't care about TRIM, and otherwise to buy from the Apple Store with what they approve (his actual rec, but that would also apply to general memory purchases).

I NEVER buy from Apple, and don't plan to change that. It's not just the premium, but the lower quality.

At this point, this is looking like a time-consuming research project that doesn't have a known estimate, so I'm going to have to wait until I have met my album production deadline commitments and hope nothing happens to mess things up in that time, and schedule a day in advance to do the appropriate depth of research.

[mhschmieder]

So much for going the Apple-approved route; they only list two unreliable brands (LaCie and Monster) in their store for SSD solutions:

http://store.apple.com/us/accessories/a ... a34%2B27fc

[mhschmieder]

I found what appears to be the most recent professional review of SSD's, from December 2014. Much more current than any of digilloyd's reviews:

http://www.storagereview.com/best_drives

I've printed this out to read on the commuter train tomorrow.

Meanwhile, I've decided against one option, which would be to move Time Machine to a permanently connected external drive via eSATA and put an SSD in one of the SATA drive bays in its place.

Also, upgrading the current optical bay installed 120 GB SSD seems quite tricky and not an ideal solution. I'm still inclined towards the PCIe route.

Striping and RAID1+ have been dismissed at my end, for the system drive, but would be reconsidered if I later switch to SSD for project data and/or some sample libraries.

It's too bad OWC's price differential is so scant between 240GB and 480GB. I look forward to reading the recent SSD review linked above.

At an Apple forum discussion, there was general recommendation (by users who've tried them all) against OCZ and Crucial for MacPro's, with not much said about Samsung (these discussions were from late 2011 so probably are no longer terribly valid or pertinent). I am still considering the Samsung EVO's, myself. I use Samsung RAM currently. Best RAM ever.

[James Steele]

I'm one of only one or two DP people here at the office. I get ridiculed for it.

I wonder if that makes them feel better about their DAW? Honestly, I just don't get it. I'm no shrink, but I think they feel threatened.

[mhschmieder]

Hah! They're DEFINITELY going to feel threatened after I finish mixing and mastering this local metal album I'm working on.

Wish I had Dave P's production skills, but I'm working on it... might have to hire him out to finish the job if I don't get it where it needs to be. The singer is really at the level of someone like Ozzy; a rare talent.

On a side note, my two newest co-workers came here from Digidesign. I must recuse myself from commenting on whether this is a trend.

[mikehalloran]

Useful information, and good explanations.

The reason I'm looking at PCIe is that my regular drive bays are already full, and ready for yet another seize upgrade or two as well. I now have close to 6 GB of sample data, between all the drum and orchestral libraries (everything else is tiny in comparison).

I don't know anything about SATA2 or SATA3. My current SSD system drive is in the second optical slot, dangling, since everyone said that's OK with a non-mechanical drive.

Still not sure what to do, so I'll wait for more discussion. I thought OWC'S PCIe w/ eSATA ports was my only realistic option (or for anyone else with a 2010 MacPro as well), and liked how I could then part with my current eSATA PCIe card and free up a slot for more SSD expansion (I use eSATA for my external backup drives).

OWC's PCIe blade is the fastest SSD for the MP. The eSATA ports are 6G, not 3G like the internal drive bays.