Can MOTU 3 trick pony added sorely NEEDED 4th trick?

[Klaus]

I'm waiting for this one

http://www.behringer.com/EN/products/X-TOUCH.aspx

I already went the X32 route, 2 x S16 for total 32 inputs

http://www.redmountain.ch/x32coretouchbcf2000.jpg

Recording at the same time with DP 7.24, Mac Mini 1,1, 10.6.8

See, back on MotU topic

Best

Klaus

[bayswater]

I don't have a lot of use for these things, and what I need I can do with a BCF 2000. So maybe I'm missing the point.

What's the attraction with the new Behringer unit? Looks nice, but it's basically yet another MCU/HUI emulator. What does it do that the zillion existing emulators don't?

If MOTU built one, wouldn't it have to be usable with PT, Logic, Live, Sonar, Cubase, etc, and wouldn't that mean it would have to follow one or more of the existing standards?

If the existing units don't work with DP, isn't that more efficiently solved by MOTU fixing DP?

If the existing units, even if they do work as expected, don't do all the things that users want, wouldn't we expect a company with controllers as a main product line, has the supply and distribution chains in place, knows and is known for controllers, to deal with it before we'd expect MOTU to do it?

On the more specific issue of automating MIDI control (is that part of this?), how would a new hardware unit help? Doesn't that have to be fixed in DP? ( I have to say that I'd really like to be able to change the CCs addressed by the faders and pan knobs in the DP mixer.)

[Klaus]

I have 3 BCF2000 in my rigs...
I compared to the 'real' MCUs

The MCUs have channel names

and that's what the X-Touch will have too,
and they are Ethernet too...

We'll see

as for DP things that should be fixed,
> absolutely, but I jumped into this thread , stating one more time, that since DP 4.61 the - here in this thread - mentioned hardware playthru level bug isn't fixed, and that involves the BCF2000 or any other controller too...

Please don't take this personal...

best

Klaus

[toodamnhip]

I'm waiting for this one

http://www.behringer.com/EN/products/X-TOUCH.aspx

I already went the X32 route, 2 x S16 for total 32 inputs

http://www.redmountain.ch/x32coretouchbcf2000.jpg

Recording at the same time with DP 7.24, Mac Mini 1,1, 10.6.8

See, back on MotU topic

Best

Klaus

I had a behringer yrs ago and it was a piece of crap. Id love a report on the new one..hope its better

[Klaus]

I'm waiting for this one

http://www.behringer.com/EN/products/X-TOUCH.aspx

I already went the X32 route, 2 x S16 for total 32 inputs

http://www.redmountain.ch/x32coretouchbcf2000.jpg

Recording at the same time with DP 7.24, Mac Mini 1,1, 10.6.8

See, back on MotU topic

Best

Klaus

I had a behringer yrs ago and it was a piece of crap. Id love a report on the new one..hope its better

I'll not name it crap,
but with the 6 896mk3/h, at least 7 failed...at some point
Not one of the BCF2000 of the 3 failed until now

Best

Klaus

[Michael Canavan]

I'm just fine with the Mackie Control here. All I want out of a mix control surface is motorized faders, solo, mute and pan. One you get the key commands down for record, rewind etc. in DP you hardly touch the transport in the Mackie.

Don't trust Bheringer for anything gentle or complicated. I like the BCF 1010, but the BCF 2000 had crap faders.

[toodamnhip]

I'm just fine with the Mackie Control here. All I want out of a mix control surface is motorized faders, solo, mute and pan. One you get the key commands down for record, rewind etc. in DP you hardly touch the transport in the Mackie.

Don't trust Bheringer for anything gentle or complicated. I like the BCF 1010, but the BCF 2000 had crap faders.

You guys got to experience automating plug ins with faders, you'll never go back. DP sucks with artist mix when it comes to plug in automation. someone isnt talking to someone...Who's fault is it?..Who knows..as the two companies sit there with their "shoulders" shrugged, I could flip them both off. Such is the case in this world of DAWS and music companies all vying for their own protocols. So ok, here's the solution: motu makes it's own control surface and no more BS problems or finger pointing. Just becuase some of you have limited fader control with some 1/2 working protcol doesn;t mean this is right. It sucks and needs to be improved..so to all the "settlers" , raise your standards and demand, prey for, ask for, kiss butt for, whatever it takes....demand better..Its time DP grew up and had faders attached to it's DAW that work properly.

[Killahurts]

I'm waiting for this one

http://www.behringer.com/EN/products/X-TOUCH.aspx

I already went the X32 route, 2 x S16 for total 32 inputs

http://www.redmountain.ch/x32coretouchbcf2000.jpg

Recording at the same time with DP 7.24, Mac Mini 1,1, 10.6.8

See, back on MotU topic

Best

Klaus

I had a behringer yrs ago and it was a piece of crap. Id love a report on the new one..hope its better

The "X" series products by Behringer are very, very good products. The X-32 console and its variations are revolutionizing live sound because there has never been a digital console of that power and quality (MIDAS preamps) for under ten times the money. I have experienced these first hand, and I can tell you that the power under the hood is profound, and the build quality is totally pro. I saw a famous 5 pc. regional band the other day that had their whole show in an X-32 Compact.. monitors, house, everything. Their sound dude was walking around with a couple iPads working the show. He wasn't breaking a sweat, and they sounded like a record.

[toodamnhip]

I'm waiting for this one

http://www.behringer.com/EN/products/X-TOUCH.aspx

I already went the X32 route, 2 x S16 for total 32 inputs

http://www.redmountain.ch/x32coretouchbcf2000.jpg

Recording at the same time with DP 7.24, Mac Mini 1,1, 10.6.8

See, back on MotU topic

Best

Klaus

I had a behringer yrs ago and it was a piece of crap. Id love a report on the new one..hope its better

The "X" series products by Behringer are very, very good products. The X-32 console and its variations are revolutionizing live sound because there has never been a digital console of that power and quality (MIDAS preamps) for under ten times the money. I have experienced these first hand, and I can tell you that the power under the hood is profound, and the build quality is totally pro. I saw a famous 5 pc. regional band the other day that had their whole show in an X-32 Compact.. monitors, house, everything. Their sound dude was walking around with a couple iPads working the show. He wasn't breaking a sweat, and they sounded like a record.

Looks like the x touch will be out late this yr, (2014).
I will definitely check it out. If the unit successfully automates inside of plug ins in DP , and if the faders don;t suck and are responsive, and if there are no other bugs with DP, I will definitely buy at least 1 if not 3 of them.
I will be surprised if there isn't some sort glitch with Behringer and DP as I have found MOTU to be pretty unresponsive with 3rd party companies, or, if MOTU is not un-resposive, then the 3rd party companies drop MOTU because it is not one of the top DAWS in their opinion such as Pro Tools.

I will add some very important real world experience here: I TRIED to help MOTU and AVID get together on the Artist mix to fix bugs. I got absolutely ZERO cooperation from MOTU to make me a beta tester. I had to work with AVID from the outside, which is very hard. I beta for MANY companies and have MANY major credits. I offered to leave this board and go “low key” to be a good beta guy..ZERO interest in my help even though I was on the cutting edge of the problem and even though I had a direct relationship with AVID. This made NO sense at all.
I found this disappointing and it showed me that MOTU can be VERY stuck in it’s ways, stubborn etc...And this type of stubbornness and refusing to accept help shows why bugs don;t get fixed at times. What I say is the truth, popular or not.

[Killahurts]

I will be surprised if there isn;t some glitch with DP as I have found MOTU to be pretty unresponsive with 3rd party companies, or, if MOTU is not un-resposive, then the 3rd party companies drop MOTU because it is not one of the top DAWS in their opinion such as Pro Tools.

I will add some very important real world experience here: I TRIED to help MOTU and AVID get together on the Artist mix to fix bugs. I got absolutely ZERO cooperation from MOTU to make me a beta tester. I had to work with AVID from the outside, which is very hard.

I think maybe you're being a little unfair to MOTU about this.

I was also working very closely with Euphonix a few years ago, trying to get the Artist stuff to work with DP, without rendering the CPU unusable. It was the Euphonix API that was to blame, not DP. Shortly after Avid took over, they all essentially told me to take a hike, and that if I wanted to use my (5) controllers, I needed to switch to a real DAW, Protools.

Of course, my utter disdain/contempt for Avid is no secret around here..

And now you know where it actually started.

Hey here's a good one: I just found out a few minutes ago that the two profire 2626's I've been using as standalone preamps for the past 2 years, cannot be used as a computer interface for my live events I have coming up, because they won't work on Mavericks. Period. No drivers. "We don't know when. We can't discuss.. blah, blah. " That's how they roll over there. $1500 worth of interfaces I can't use on my Mac. Avid apparently dropped the M-Audio brand couple years back, probably so they would no longer have to support the products. Maybe I can sell them and get enough money for a MOTU Traveler (a real interface)

[toodamnhip]

I will be surprised if there isn;t some glitch with DP as I have found MOTU to be pretty unresponsive with 3rd party companies, or, if MOTU is not un-resposive, then the 3rd party companies drop MOTU because it is not one of the top DAWS in their opinion such as Pro Tools.

I will add some very important real world experience here: I TRIED to help MOTU and AVID get together on the Artist mix to fix bugs. I got absolutely ZERO cooperation from MOTU to make me a beta tester. I had to work with AVID from the outside, which is very hard.

I think maybe you're being a little unfair to MOTU about this.

I was also working very closely with Euphonix a few years ago, trying to get the Artist stuff to work with DP, without rendering the CPU unusable. It was the Euphonix API that was to blame, not DP. Shortly after Avid took over, they all essentially told me to take a hike, and that if I wanted to use my (5) controllers, I needed to switch to a real DAW, Protools.

Of course, my utter disdain/contempt for Avid is no secret around here..

And now you know where it actually started.

Hey here's a good one: I just found out a few minutes ago that the two profire 2626's I've been using as standalone preamps for the past 2 years, cannot be used as a computer interface for my live events I have coming up, because they won't work on Mavericks. Period. No drivers. "We don't know when. We can't discuss.. blah, blah. " That's how they roll over there. $1500 worth of interfaces I can't use on my Mac. Avid apparently dropped the M-Audio brand couple years back, probably so they would no longer have to support the products. Maybe I can sell them and get enough money for a MOTU Traveler (a real interface)

I should be clearer on the quote-" I will be surprised if there isn't some sort glitch with Behringer and DP"
As far as who the culprit was between artist mix and DP, I don't know technically. I just know that I was able to communicate with AVID directly better than MOTU. Avid seemed to be trying to fix the problem, MOTU un responsive to my offer to assist as a go between. There is another MAJOR software maker with which I had the same experience. I was beta testing for them. They wanted DP 8 testing, MOTU ignored my offer to help. (Magic D was cool to liaise, but it went nowhere.).I had to wait for DP 8.
Yes, MOTU has the right to use who they want for beta. But it makes little sense to me that when a user is already working with another company and needs to be on the inside of both companies, MOTU doesn't help facilitate this. I have heard this same complaint from other forum members so it is not just me. Being picky about who beta tests for you should be expected. But I know who beta's for this MAJOR software maker. There aint a lot of us. Everyone one of the testers should be on the inside of BOTH companies. Makes sense right?
So 1) MOTU seems closed and un-bending in an area that should be cooperative.2) I have experienced this multiple times as have other users here when it comes to helping them fix bugs. 3) With Avid, it is indeed possible that motu already got the cold should from avid before I offered to help, and therefore thought my help unhelpful. But my view was that avid was trying and I could not liaise properly due to motu's refusing to let me in. 4) This is not and AVID vrs MOTU thing. This is a LOGIC argument. Testers need to be able to make quick software updates to both products to see where the bugs lie.

[Gravity Jim]

How heroic you are, TDH, working tirelessly behin the scenes to make a better world. I can't imagine why they didn't accept your help.

[Todzilla]

I would assume a dedicated controller would cost a lot to develop and manufacture and have a pretty small market in which to recoup its investmnet.

Sounds like it would be a bad business decision for MOTU.

[toodamnhip]

I would assume a dedicated controller would cost a lot to develop and manufacture and have a pretty small market in which to recoup its investmnet.

Sounds like it would be a bad business decision for MOTU.

If by small market you mean people who use DP, then I think motu has a problem. I have always wondered of this possibility and considered the lack of a dedicated control surface a potential commentary on the lack of numbers of DP users. Sad indeed if true.

[Todzilla]

I would assume a dedicated controller would cost a lot to develop and manufacture and have a pretty small market in which to recoup its investmnet.

Sounds like it would be a bad business decision for MOTU.

If by small market you mean people who use DP, then I think motu has a problem. I have always wondered of this possibility and considered the lack of a dedicated control surface a potential commentary on the lack of numbers of DP users. Sad indeed if true.

I'm just a guy with an opinion, but I think the DP market is too small to support a dedicated hardware controller, especially when one considers there are plenty out there that work quite well.

I didn't intend for it to sound alarm bells about DP having a small market, just that it wasn't large enough to warrant the significant investment in fabrication.