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So you are saying EDM is not a piece of software but a genre ? I couldn't tell from this post. I was thinking, hold on Reason works brilliantly with DP and Live does too, so what is this software called EDM that I never heard of? It made me feel a bit old.

Of course DP does not suck with EDM - although it may not be naturally suited to that genre (which I guess is formed of blocks of music copied and moved around such as loops) you can do anything in DP. But you have to find a way of working - in Reason or Live it is more setup for that type of music. Not a day goes by where I think, if only I could upgrade to Reason and get my hands on all those new dubstep loops so I can sound like everyone else.

Maybe DP is more of a muso app - but you can still do that sort of EDM stuff - but really you would be using Reason or Live anyway - or indeed Fruity Loops. I never even thought in terms of some music called EDM before this post. I have been working on a more electronic dance song along with my rockier stuff - to me it was just a different song that suited that Thom Yorke/Atoms vibe rather than guitar bass and drums. So wow - I am doing some EDM and doing it on DP. I have impressed myself.....

The bottom line here seems to be LOOPS. So has the O/P tried MachFive? Has he used Polar? And is it a de facto thing that EDM has to use loops? That is the ONLY standard to EDM?

IMO, EDM SUCKS, but that's another story. Anyway, I got ya loops right heeeere...

So you are saying EDM is not a piece of software but a genre ? I couldn't tell from this post. I was thinking, hold on Reason works brilliantly with DP and Live does too, so what is this software called EDM that I never heard of? It made me feel a bit old.

I hear you there.

EDM stands for Electronic Dance Music

Thanks, David.

I kind of guessed that's what we were talking about but I couldn't figure out the acronym.

Yes, my few forays into the genre were to write my loops in notation, copy and paste measures. Until Finale 2007, I found it easier to start in Encore then save as MIDI, open and finish in Finale. I did a bunch of infomercials and industrials that way.

Now, nobody remembers I can do that stuff. I guess that, since I didn't know what EDM is, I really am of touch. Damn, where's my TI-99/4A?

I found it! The ULTIMATE DAW!!!

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:The bottom line here seems to be LOOPS. So has the O/P tried MachFive? Has he used Polar? And is it a de facto thing that EDM has to use loops? That is the ONLY standard to EDM?

For the cheap sh*t, yeah.

Killahurts wrote:

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:The bottom line here seems to be LOOPS. So has the O/P tried MachFive? Has he used Polar? And is it a de facto thing that EDM has to use loops? That is the ONLY standard to EDM?

For the cheap sh*t, yeah.

I don't think we need to bash the genre. I don't think POLAR would be that much use. From what I can gather this is a style where you move a lot of pre-recorded loops around or blocks of MIDI data, etc. I've done this kind of thing dragging and dropping with UVI Workstation and I recall doing it with SampleTank and some of their loops. I can remember dragging it into the Track Overview and DP adjusting the audio so that the loop matched the tempo of my DP project.

I'm hazy on just how I did that. It's not something I do that much of, which probably goes to show why I'm a very content DP user. If I did more of that type of stuff, I'd probably be looking to *temporarily* put down my "hammer" and use the "screwdriver" instead.

I've made all kinds of "EDM" with DP over the past 13 years. And released it on vinyl too.

I hear what the OP is saying, to a small degree. That small degree would be a proper drum sequencer. It's such a bummer to even look at DP's drum editor/sequencer. Not being able to quickly paint drums in and edit them can be frustrating and generally uninspiring. Which is why most of the time I play them in.

And this is something I should put in the 3 most annoying things about DP, which is, trying to look at and edit note on velocities is like trying to pick up a tiny dropped screw out of the most impossible corner of the circuit board, with your fingers instead of tweezers.

Those small things are what makes DP to some, less EDM friendly.
I've been trying like I'm getting paid for it, to convert my friends from their DAW for years. Most of them make dance music as their careers, and I hear what they're saying about Ableton. Its just easy to "paint" with when it comes to clicking in drums and chords and being able to edit them, and trigger too. They are obviously very different programs, but I for one would love to see a drum sequencer implemented into DP. Basically something like Maschine replacing DP's drum editor. That alone would make DP more EDM friendly. In my humble opinion, of course.

Nibiru wrote:I've made all kinds of "EDM" with DP over the past 13 years. And released it on vinyl too.

I hear what the OP is saying, to a small degree. That small degree would be a proper drum sequencer. It's such a bummer to even look at DP's drum editor/sequencer. Not being able to quickly paint drums in and edit them can be frustrating and generally uninspiring. Which is why most of the time I play them in.

And this is something I should put in the 3 most annoying things about DP, which is, trying to look at and edit note on velocities is like trying to pick up a tiny dropped screw out of the most impossible corner of the circuit board, with your fingers instead of tweezers.

Those small things are what makes DP to some, less EDM friendly.
I've been trying like I'm getting paid for it, to convert my friends from their DAW for years. Most of them make dance music as their careers, and I hear what they're saying about Ableton. Its just easy to "paint" with when it comes to clicking in drums and chords and being able to edit them, and trigger too. They are obviously very different programs, but I for one would love to see a drum sequencer implemented into DP. Basically something like Maschine replacing DP's drum editor. That alone would make DP more EDM friendly. In my humble opinion, of course.

Really good post. I'd think that simply buying Maschine would solve the
drum sequencer issue.

David Polich wrote:Really good post. I'd think that simply buying Maschine would solve the
drum sequencer issue.

That was a good post.. and you make an excellent point. If you're doing pro work, you're probably going to purchase specialized gear and software, that goes above and beyond what the sequencer on its own provides. I've never used DP's convolution reverb plug, because I have Altiverb.. I've never used the DP sampler because I have Mach V and Kontakt..

I've always liked MOTU's approach with DP- make the DAW/sequencer as versatile and solid as possible, and not try to be all things to all people. Just seems more professional to me.

David Polich wrote:[...]There is no such thing as a "blues guitar". A guitar is a guitar, it doesn't "know" what style of guitar it is. Neither does a synthesizer or a drum machine.[...]

So good!

daniel.sneed wrote:

David Polich wrote:[...]There is no such thing as a "blues guitar". A guitar is a guitar, it doesn't "know" what style of guitar it is. Neither does a synthesizer or a drum machine.[...]

So good!

Respectfully disagree. There are certain characteristics to certain styles that make certain tools better suited than others. You want to play Chicago blues, don't show up with an un-amplified nylon string guitar... or a DX7.

Of course you can make whatever you like with whatever tools, but the tool will have an effect on the result - which is why we always rejoice when something gets improved in our DAW - it has a direct effect on the result.

DP has a number of object-oriented editing capabilities (especially in regards to audio), but it's main metaphor is linear. Of course you can add something like Maschine, but this basically only underscores the point. And personally, I'm glad DP is not another musical Lego set. Nothing wrong with that per se, but I don't think that way, I don't write that way, I don't want my main tool to be optimized for that. As James more or less said earlier in this thread, trying to be all things to all people just ensures you'll be right for none.









All that said, I'll take some form of object-oriented "MIDIbites" in a future version...

Nibiru wrote: Not being able to quickly paint drums in and edit them can be frustrating and generally uninspiring. Which is why most of the time I play them in.

Thats exactly what you can do with Superior Drummer or most of the Drum VI's - so for me painting in loops is easy.

Kubi wrote:[...]Respectfully disagree. There are certain characteristics to certain styles that make certain tools better suited than others.[...]

Of course, Kubi, you can disagree.
But, since my very first DAW steps with DP3.11, I've been involved in so many different music styles and experiences, on stage and in studio, that I've come to see DP as an extremely wide open and deep piece of software. All my attempts to walk on another way, get me back to DP.
I understand there's no one size fits all, though, and once again, YMMV.

The beauty of DP is that you're not forced into thinking into one 'way' of conceiving how to create music.

'POLAR' is even in there if you want it!

DP could never go through another upgrade or major revision and it would be fine as far a handling any composing needs.

Sure, it may have to change some architecture for the sake of working with OSX 14 or OSX 27 or whatever, but the developers deserve time out to have a holiday or get a coffee outside the office.

They've done an amazing job with all the latest updates throughout the MOTU product line.

You can definitely do with DP (or any modern DAW) any style of music your brain fancies. The only question is how "easily" or quickly it can be done.

If MOTU implemented those features (MIDI regions and the features the EDM guys want) AS OPTIONAL switches, it could only have a very positive impact on DP's sales and tool-set expansion. It could only make DP a better and more complete DAW.

I just don't understand why MOTU hasn't implemented them yet... what is it? Lack of man power to devote to develop the features? Perhaps that's a direction that, for some reason, MOTU execs don't want to take DP?

This could be one of those things where everyone is happy!

OTOH, why don't EDM guys simply plug into DP something like Reason or Live?
Wouldn't that be even better than anything MOTU came up for DP? I mean, those other apps are really specialized for those genres, so why not using them along with DP for maximum power?

I really don't like EDM, but I'm finding myself having to do it (and absorb the style) because some clients want it. I'm seriously considering something like Live myself. I have Reason already, but I have an irrational dislike against that DAW that I need to get rid of before seriously considering it (oooohhhmmmmmmm).