DP 8

[bayswater]

Again, I don't think that's an indicator that AU is in a "wrapper" for "MAS"

OK, but what is the MAS Audio Unit Support bundle, and why don't AU plugins work without it? Perhaps the piece that links AU to the general MAS engine? But do we know that?

MAS will not go away, it's what MOTU calls it's audio engine in general, it's not just plug ins, it also handles audio tracks, audio cards, and all DSP.

Understood, but I think we're talking about MAS plugins and whether they will continue to be supported in DP, and what that might mean.

DP is and never has been less efficient that any other OSX DAW in terms of AU handling.

No argument there, but that wasn't the comparison at hand. It was a comparison between DP with and DP without some sort of wrapper. If there is no such wrapper, then of course, no increase in efficiency. But if there is, it seems pretty obvious that there would be fewer instructions to execute and a possibility of fewer errors.

[hrw]

Love to see an improvement in time stretching in DP 8 and mute MIDI notes.
I wonder if there might be one or two more tricks they'll implement before the final release...
not suggesting they would be the aforementioned, that's more my personal wish list ( for a long time). 64bit is of course a very welcome develpment and i'm very curious to see whether it will cut down my reliance on VE Pro???

[MIDI Life Crisis]

OK, so if we are making a wish list and checking it twice, along the lines of time stretching, wouldn't it be nice if DP 8 included a plugin based on the IRCAM model that MachFive 3 uses? That would be seriously and intensely awesome! And my long time request for a great noise reduction tool.... huh, huh?

[hrw]

OK, so if we are making a wish list and checking it twice, along the lines of time stretching, wouldn't it be nice if DP 8 included a plugin based on the IRCAM model that MachFive 3 uses? That would be seriously and intensely awesome! And my long time request for a great noise reduction tool.... huh, huh?

Yes, yes.

[Michael Canavan]

Again, I don't think that's an indicator that AU is in a "wrapper" for "MAS"

OK, but what is the MAS Audio Unit Support bundle, and why don't AU plugins work without it? Perhaps the piece that links AU to the general MAS engine? But do we know that?

That's more or less my point though, if it does work without adding any less efficiency then what are we worrying about? The problems with AU in DP at this point are due to AU, not DP.

MAS will not go away, it's what MOTU calls it's audio engine in general, it's not just plug ins, it also handles audio tracks, audio cards, and all DSP.

Understood, but I think we're talking about MAS plugins and whether they will continue to be supported in DP, and what that might mean.

True, so far having directly asked Audio Ease why they continue to make a MAS version their reply was that MAS still offered better support for DP than AU, which as stated above I think comes from MAS having a few more goodies like multiple MIDI ports available to a multi output plug in etc. That MachFive 3 no longer supports MAS says either MOTU know that AU will get multi MIDI port ability soon or that they aren't developing MAS plug in support any further. That's one thing we can rationally come to the conclusion on.

DP is and never has been less efficient that any other OSX DAW in terms of AU handling.

No argument there, but that wasn't the comparison at hand. It was a comparison between DP with and DP without some sort of wrapper. If there is no such wrapper, then of course, no increase in efficiency. But if there is, it seems pretty obvious that there would be fewer instructions to execute and a possibility of fewer errors.

OK well here's rub from my perspective anyway. We aren't coders, we can only speculate on whether or not AU is coded efficiently into DP or not. Some things are known. When AU came out DP was coded even more to Apple's spec than Logic. In the meantime Apple had cheated a bit and tweaked the AU handling code a bit to get it to work better with Logic. So right away we have Apple and MOTU both agreeing that any issues AU had on start up in DP was due to Apple, not MOTU.
Me being a retardedly early adopter of OSX and AU with Logic 5 at the once burgeoning osxaudio.com, all of us got into massive debates about whether or not AU plug ins from independent developers were "wrapped" Windows VSTs. The feeling was that all the growing pains were mainly due to this, and plenty of actual developers of AU plug ins and even a Logic coder sometimes stepped in to clarify things and maybe straighten out any misgivings. Mostly, the big things are how the GUI is handled, some excess code in a plug in that's left over from the Windows version, or lack of AU GUI spec code in the plug in can and does cause problems, hence the AU evaluation/validators that both Logic and DP use.
Mostly, there isn't much of a price to pay for badly coded AU's in terms of CPU, what you mainly get is crashes, this is completely separate from how DP, Live or Logic etc. handle AU's and is more about how badly the GUI and UI elements are handled in OSX AU. SO even if MOTU has a "wrapper" it's a dammed good one, that offers little if any issues, while the main issue remains and will be how cleanly the developer coded the AU version, or if they used a third party like FXPansion to wrap it for them.
Personally I can name two great plug in developers that I'm almost 100% certain use a wrapper, PSP and Voxenego. Voxenego have simple dual monitor issue with their AU's (in their spectral waveform displays the waveform stops moving if on the second monitor) and the plug ins that open secondary windows themselves have Windows "close" X's on the upper right corner. PSP shout out to Steinberg for VST in their "about" splash built in to Neon, which indicates to me that the GUI was wrapped. Neither plug in is that buggy, and neither would be improved by DP getting a more direct AU set up. To ad to that, NI Kore is the one plug in that's responsible for instability in DP for me, NI don't use a wrapper, and had to, much to most peoples total annoyance recode all their AU plug ins for Intel Macs because they used the wrong compiler for Intel and hadn't changed over by the time Apple announced x86 Intel Macs. So Kore is written 100% native, but it's vastly more unstable in my set up than two plug ins that are almost certainly wrapped AU's.

To sum up my point, I think DP aren't close to the issue when it comes to AU efficiency, mostly our major AU issues are over; any that are left are due to developers being sloppy. We just need Apple to get on the ball and get it up to par with VST3. Hell? DP8 is 100 cocoa and 64 bit, that can't be said for about half my plug ins. Honestly that unfortunately is probably going to cause some initial problems, any time things change even if it's for the better in the long run, we will see hiccups in our systems. Bugs have to be ironed out, and I'm sure third party AU's will be sputtering here and there with DP, though it's actually a good thing this time that Logic has been cocoa and 64 bit for far longer than DP, means it's possible that MOTU took in all lessons the Logic team learned.

[monkey man]

I don't think even more plugins is something to grab new users for DP8 - it would be VIs, like a lite version of Machfive or a few of the other VIs bundled. Of course this topic has been talked about a lot, so I won't say more ...

Hey there, John. For me, this is the elephant in the room. No new VIs since... DP5! Convinced that MOTU must surely have been building on this since then, I'm hoping it'll announce an influx of said beasties as a last-minute sweetener for DP8.

My reasoning is twofold: The aforementioned period is unprecedented in its length, a time during which MOTU released BPM, EK and M5 III, and, as you suggest, the arsenal provided is a major factor in attracting new users IMHO.

Dogboy, G'day mate! Glad you're still here and have stuck with the avatar.

[tommymandel]

HI M-Man! long time, mate... Won't making DP8 Windows-compatible give it all the "New Users" mojo it needs?

[dogBoy]

Dogboy, G'day mate! Glad you're still here and have stuck with the avatar.

Thanks Monkey!!

[monkey man]

HI M-Man! long time, mate...

Yeah g'day bud. Hope you've managed to avoid the "declawed" one sufficiently, and are finally free of the CS shackle. [Private]
Oh, and I also hope the pain of losing iggy has subsided somewhat too.

Won't making DP8 Windows-compatible give it all the "New Users" mojo it needs?

Let's hope so, Tommy. Hey, we may even get a regular gig at SOS notes again... maybe.

Dogboy, G'day mate! Glad you're still here and have stuck with the avatar.

Thanks Monkey!!

Hey, it's the truth DB. Also, whenever I see your avatar it puts a smile on my face.

[willheim]

for me 64 bit, 100% cocoa and new video handling is huge. i dont care so much about plug ins and sounds, i have my plug ins and sounds, i look to dp for stability and efficiency and elegance in getting the job done.

it may push me into buying a new mac. my2007 mac pro, which is a rock, will never be able to boot into 64 bit because of a little known firmware issue on early mac pros. i was so mad when i found that out.

i might try to get a senior suppor guy on the phone one more time to see if anything can be done.

[willheim]

i thought i might elaborate for the benefit of those with 2007 mac pros. you never will be able to boot into a 64 bit kernel because of something called the efi. there is a test ypu can run to see if you have it. there is no firmware upgrade available.

that said, a 64 bit app will still run under this 32 bit kernel and be able to access all the ram you have, at least according to my research.

you wont get all the performance out of your machine that newer ones are capable of, but the difference is not huge.

here is a link to a discussion of the issue, with some understandably upset folks. i have known about this for years, but now that 64 bit is more adapated, people are howling in pain more. maybe this will prompt apple to help. probably not, but, well, whatever!

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/23 ... 0&tstart=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[FMiguelez]

I agree with the above comment about implementing the IRCAM algorithms into DP. They are really amazing! And they blow DP's time stretching algorithms out of the water.

I really think MOTU's flagship app should have better time-stretching. Perhaps the French would give MOTU a good deal for licensing it for DP?
I know people who have PT just for its elastic-time and time-stretching features...

While I'm at it, I insist, it's time for DP to have a MUCH BETTER notation solution too.

Also, I really need a better mechanism for editing note velocities. Something similar to the way the bundles window shades the X and Y axis to make setting things easier.
Massaging velocities is KEY to most VIs now-a-days, so an improved GUI is in order, me thinks.

Oh, and one more thing... PT has copied many DP features lately, so I think DP should implement PT's way of showing parameter tags when being edited. I just want to see a little tag next to my edit points showing me the value, so I don't have to almost stand up and look at the Info bar for this or open the event list.

I would be willing to wait a few more months for DP8 if they implement more (long needed) features. So far, since I use slave computers with VE Pro, the 64-bit thing does nothing for me. I freaked out when I saw DP8's announcement, but, for the very first time since I'm a DP user, I felt completely underwhelmed by DP8's improvements.

I think DP is stable enough that they can now think about actually adding new cool features... but no more guitar plug-ins, PLEASE!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Notation in DP needs a full suite so why don't they just buy Finale and have done with it. But again, and again, and again... what is the great gem, the abandoned child, the man in the DP mask is the Notation window. Essentially it's an instant piano reduction. That added to a robust notation feature and DP would be King of the DAWorld!

[FMiguelez]

Definitely!

I mean, they have 2 notation windows that almost work... 2 editors that sweat and scream potential all over them. They just need some MOTU love.

Man, imagine DP8 with a killer notation solution and the IRCAM algorithms! That would take some serious market from other DAWs.

Also, I wanted to mention what a ridiculously powerful combo DP + MachFive 3 is!
It's a-ma-zing.
MachFive 3 does a lot of the things I've always wanted DP to do. I know we've talked about this, but imagine if DP were optionally bundled with MachFive 3!

Oh, and I CAN'T BELIEVE I FORGOT to say, for the millionth time, one of the most important and over-due DP improvements I think we need:

Optional MIDI regions.

They should be able to be color-coded and custom named (with option-click), and if MIDI stuff was dragged out of a sampler or VI (like MachFive or Stylus), then the regions should be named automatically according to their source (an indication of where the notes came from).

That would make me buy DP8 like right now, even if it's still not for sale...

[glenesis]

I'm in the market right now for a linear phase EQ on the lines of MW EQ, and honestly if I could use MW EQ in DSP Quattro I wouldn't bother with a linear phase EQ at all and just use it.

You CAN use it in DSP Quattro. In case you missed it, MOTU finally put out 3 of our favorite plugs in AU/VST3/RTAS:

http://www.motu.com/products/software/mwc

I wish many more were available, especially Steinberg's built-in channel compressor from Cubase 5. I’ve always wanted to use that thing in DP.

Hi, everyone. My name is Glenn. I'm a long-time veteran heavy user of DP. I registered for this board a while back, and fogot about it, but I just found it in the Tapatalk forum client app on my phone, and I am really excited about it.

Since the new interface was introduced in DP 6, my productivity has taken a major drop. I really want at least a skin option for the DP 5 layout and color scheme. The old layout let me produce more completed projects than any other single production environment. The new GUI is a mess. For starters, the contrast is terrible, especially on my MacBook LCD. My biggest gripe is what they did with the window mini-menus. It seems like a small thing, that the mini menus got moved to the opposite corner of the windows, from where they used to be, to the top-right-hand corner. However, most of the controls I use are on the left side of the screen, and to mouse over to the top right, then to visually locate the little, tiny arrow on that grey background, adds a lot of time to my workflow. At the end of the run of version 7, it still aggravates me, and I find mini-menu location to be thoroughly non-intuitive. The slick redesign really offends me, and not because I'm set in my ways (I'm not). It just seemed to me like a senseless make-over for it§ own sake, whereas previous changes to DP had always boosted my productivity. What's more, prior to the I had always had an excellent email relationship with MOTU support and their R&D. The company was always responsive to my questions and to my suggestions and criticisms, almost all of which were addressed quickly, or incorporated into upgrades. Version 6 coincided with MOTU's support being moved to that horrible forum-based ticketing system. Since they moved to that system, any input I've given or support requests I've had have, apparently, been ignored. The shift took me from feling like a valued customer to feeling completely frustrated. I wouldn't have taken the shift so personally, if their service hadn't completely ruled before. Now, they are perfectly in line with companies like Digidesign when it comes to support. None of that was anything close to what I consider to be an upgrade or an improvement.

On the other hand, the audio path in version 6 is glorious and beautiful. DP has never sounded better. To their credit, I have tried many other DAW platforms, and keep coming back to DP, because the editing in DP is slammin', as is the file management, and the plug-in management. Making stuff look like Ableton Live was a dumb move, for a platform that had its own awesomeness already.

Not really off-topic that is all just to back up my point, which is that what really matters most to me is workflow. My writing and production process demand that the user interface not get in the way of my writing. My creativity is far too important to me to let that happen.. The biggest problem I had with 6 and 7 is that the damned things sounded so good, that I couldn't really go back to 4 or 5 without missing all the really neat improvements in DP that sat under that aweful, downgrade nightmare of a new interface. Now they are doing it again. I have been easing into 64-bit Snow Leopard as my apps get upgraded, and I also work with a 64-bit Windows 7 machine, so, I'm excited about DP 8. That's incredible news for me. I hope they put stuff into places in the program that inspire me again, instead of hindering me. Nothing comes close to DP, and I am not switching from it. Performer changed my life in a drastic way back in the day, and I really want to see the legacy of that live on.

Really, it's great news for me that version 8 is coming out. I hadn't heard about it. It's fantastic that I can push DP on my musical collaborators who use Windows, and it will be fantastic to have DP running on all of my machines again.

So, do the developers hang out here at all?

Cheers!



http://www.131records.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;