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MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Well now my head is spinning. I found this but it's starting to glaze me over...

SEE! this is why we collaborate! AHH i didn't know about this AUNetSend/Receive thing.. That seems like the solution to that, but i'm not sure how it all plays out in the end in DP. is it messy? do you have hundreds of these plugins? can DP handle it like VEP? idk the answer to these.. maybe some one does..

okay well it seems PB is really catching on with this! (or maybe they've been ahead of the curve)

But from reading posts on the PB forum about how to go about doing things, it seems that to use PB effectively, you really need programming/highly technical experiences with computers.

VEP seems to be more elegantly setup and more user friendly.

It's like having a Linux computer ... and then using a Mac...

hmmmm lots to think about here...

okay i'm done for the day. my brain hurts haha. Maybe more to come tomorrow! I hope we didn't stray too much off topic. Maybe we can start a fresh thread once we get a more concise flow of topics here.

Best,

M7

My brain is officially empty.

Guys, while OSC and MoLCP3 sound very intriguing, I think that for our purposes here we had better stick to ReWire and/or SoundFlower for Plogue Bidule. This being with DP7 on one machine. The possibilities exist to go crazy and make absolutely gargantuan templates with slave machines, but the people who go for that are going to find their sources for the info, and most of them will enjoy the challenge of figuring it out. It's not up to us to tell them how to do it.

I'm thinking that Plogue Bidule and VEPro will make possible some quite expanded capabilities with DP7, using one machine for Plogue Bidule, and one or two machines for VEPro, because of its built-in networking capabilities. We're going for stuff that mere mortals can use to sound a bit more like the gods of Sampledom. We'll let those gods fend for themselves out there on the frontiers of the Audioverse.

The average -- and even most above average -- DP user(s) will want to stick to one machine. Not that they can't up the ante at some point and network another, but we've got Intels now, with multiple cores, so let's use up THAT power first. Am I right on that? Do we have a consensus?

Shooshie

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:My brain is officially empty.

Hey I thought you were gonna moderate this??? Better fill 'er back up! Eat some tuna, some fresh peas, ...

This may have already appeared in the these posts. ANother really cool use of VEP is as a standalone effects rack or all you other macs and PC's. Would have really helped us long ago when we got into 3 full Altiverb licenses, mucho soundtoys auths, reverbs etc. (not whining- that was the price we had to pay back then to do what we needed done. Just saying today is way different. Me likey. Too bad I am at the back end of a career, rather than the front !)

Shooshie wrote:...The average -- and even most above average -- DP user(s) will want to stick to one machine. Not that they can't up the ante at some point and network another, but we've got Intels now, with multiple cores, so let's use up THAT power first. Am I right on that? Do we have a consensus?

Shooshie

+1

Shooshie wrote:I'm thinking that Plogue Bidule and VEPro will make possible some quite expanded capabilities with DP7, using one machine for Plogue Bidule, and one or two machines for VEPro, because of its built-in networking capabilities. We're going for stuff that mere mortals can use to sound a bit more like the gods of Sampledom. We'll let those gods fend for themselves out there on the frontiers of the Audioverse.

The average -- and even most above average -- DP user(s) will want to stick to one machine. Not that they can't up the ante at some point and network another, but we've got Intels now, with multiple cores, so let's use up THAT power first. Am I right on that? Do we have a consensus?

Shooshie

I dont know nuthin' bout Bidule. But for VEP, excepting for 3 small things, all the stuff you do to get it to work solid, is the same whether on one machine or with slaves.

with a slave you have to
1) connect rigs via ethernet cable
2) assign a static IP address to each mac
3) name each mac in the VEP server so you dont go nuts trying to figure which is which by the IP address numbers.

Thats really it. Whether on a single mac running both DP and VEP, or multiple machines, you just decide whether you wanna work with VEP servers (meaning they dont function at all apart from DP plugin, or standalone which is sorta like using standalone Kontakt or Machfive etc.) I much prefer 'VEP servers' as then DP session remembers EVERYTHING.

The less I have to remember the better!

PMortise wrote:

Shooshie wrote:...The average -- and even most above average -- DP user(s) will want to stick to one machine. Not that they can't up the ante at some point and network another, but we've got Intels now, with multiple cores, so let's use up THAT power first. Am I right on that? Do we have a consensus?

Shooshie

+1

+2

+2.5 So far the 8 core is just fine on it's own.

Back on Topic! - VEP on a single Mac. Setup is EASY!! These are the steps I took that gave me the best results (after installation of course):

1) Open DP, but don't load a project. (previously there were issues in the order of starting apps, so i got into the habit of this.)
2) start up VEP Server (32 or 64 bit)
3) click Add - to add instance - call it what you want (typically the genre of what instruments you'll have inside)
4) Open DP file
5) Add instrument track - Vienna Ensemble Pro (*Not the event input)
6) double click the newly added plugin
7) you'll see a list of VEP instances to connect to. And since it's all Local you don't have to worry about IP addresses etc. you'll see a (New) and a (whatever you called it) Click on the one you made and click connect.
**Personally I Decouple and Preserve. **This is something to discuss - and is a key feature in VEP
9) go to bundles and make appropriate bundle adds and selections.
10) add MIDI track - on input you'll see "Vienna Ensemble Pro - 1, 2, 3 etc.)
11) ** I option-click the VEP instrument track and rename it similar to what I named the instance. so it's easier to remember.
12) go to VEP instance and add what you want.
13) **NOTE - NET OUT 1-2 will route audio to the instrument track in DP. you'll see that in the bundles the routings start at Outs 3/4. I just consider 3/4 to be out 1, 5/6 - out 2, etc.. It's nicer looking in DP. a little messy in VEP..
14) ready to ROCK!!

Preferences should be another topic. There are things to consider here.. both in DP and in VEP

I kinda made this list off the top of my head, so if I missed something, let me know. Preferences should be checked first as well as any other type of installations/plug in compatibility checks.

Cheers,

M7

haha it made my 8 a smiley face.. oops..

On the topic of One computer vs 2:

To me, one Mac Pro (quad/8/12) is good enough for the average project. If you setup your HDD's in a 4 drive fashion - System, Projects, Video, Samples. and enough RAM.. Than it works pretty good. On my single quad at home, I have this kind of setup. I work on small projects there, and 90% of the time everything is perfect. It's when I try and up the ante a bit, I run into some issues. Random crashes, cracks and pops, etc. Just odd behavior that typically a restart will fix.. I'm thinking they are threading/multi core usage errors..

At the studio.. and for large projects, I think it's almost necessary to have 2 Mac Pros. One for DAW/Video/Projects/ and some samples. and the 2nd as the Slave for ..well.. samples galore! -Multiple dedicated HDD's for large sample libraries, and large amounts of RAM.

In that setup, I experience a fast workflow and hardly any errors. you can really crank when you have a Mac Pro just working with DP!

What do you guys think?

Best,

M7

Marc7777 wrote:Back on Topic!

Um... we never got off topic. One part of understanding VEP and PB is knowing whether or not you actually need it.

Marc7777 wrote:Back on Topic! - VEP on a single Mac. Setup is EASY!! These are the steps I took that gave me the best results (after installation of course):

1) Open DP, but don't load a project. (previously there were issues in the order of starting apps, so i got into the habit of this.)
2) start up VEP Server (32 or 64 bit)
3) click Add - to add instance - call it what you want (typically the genre of what instruments you'll have inside)
4) Open DP file
5) Add instrument track - Vienna Ensemble Pro (*Not the event input)
6) double click the newly added plugin
7) you'll see a list of VEP instances to connect to. And since it's all Local you don't have to worry about IP addresses etc. you'll see a (New) and a (whatever you called it) Click on the one you made and click connect.
**Personally I Decouple and Preserve. **This is something to discuss - and is a key feature in VEP
9) go to bundles and make appropriate bundle adds and selections.
10) add MIDI track - on input you'll see "Vienna Ensemble Pro - 1, 2, 3 etc.)
11) ** I option-click the VEP instrument track and rename it similar to what I named the instance. so it's easier to remember.
12) go to VEP instance and add what you want.
13) **NOTE - NET OUT 1-2 will route audio to the instrument track in DP. you'll see that in the bundles the routings start at Outs 3/4. I just consider 3/4 to be out 1, 5/6 - out 2, etc.. It's nicer looking in DP. a little messy in VEP..
14) ready to ROCK!!

Preferences should be another topic. There are things to consider here.. both in DP and in VEP

I kinda made this list off the top of my head, so if I missed something, let me know. Preferences should be checked first as well as any other type of installations/plug in compatibility checks.

Cheers,

M7

This sounds to me like the start of a good tip. We need to vet the completeness of this list with some experienced users who may have their own items to add. Can anyone say that they could totally setup VEPro with this list? What's missing? Where is it weak on description? I don't have VEPro, by the way, which is why I wanted to start with Plogue Bidule. I'll probably get VEP later, but here we are with a list, and I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. So, let's run with it. Can anyone make this list better? (don't be shy… this is how we do things. We collaborate. We start with something and add to it or slash from it until we have the right stuff)

What say ye, oh experts of VEP? (Expert means you've used it to make music, and it works for you)

Shoosh

Marc has done some great work with this and he makes a HUGE point in item #8: things to discuss.

One thing that stumps a lot of people is the lexicon of terms unique to so many different apps. When I first got VEP, I had no idea what I was decoupling because I had no idea what I had coupled in the first place. In turn, I had no idea exactly what it was being preserved.

Marc, thanks so much for stepping up to the plate with your inaugural offering. I mentioned to Shooshie in a private message that this endeavor could easily take on the title of : "How The Manual Should Have Been Written".

Frodo wrote:Marc has done some great work with this and he makes a HUGE point in item #8: things to discuss.

One thing that stumps a lot of people is the lexicon of terms unique to so many different apps. When I first got VEP, I had no idea what I was decoupling because I had no idea what I had coupled in the first place. In turn, I had no idea exactly what it was being preserved.

Well, I'm sitting here like chopped liver while you guys are discussing coupling and decoupling like old hands. All I can think of in regard to that are trains and women, not necessarily in that order. Maybe you could fill me in.

Shoosh